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 Post subject: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:18 am 
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Big question: when was the UK Mold made.

Some say at the end of ANH production. Others say at ESB pre-production.

I am starting this discussion to see what the consensus is regarding this particular mold and what evidence is presented to back up the claims.

I can start off with a few facts.

The Rick Baker (US) mold made casts with these features:
- No tabs
- Filled in gap between eye sockets
- Filled in mouth - no grill showing (or faint)
- Filled in chin vent - depressed - no grill showing (or faint)
- Filled undercuts above and below on the tusk tubes

The UK mold made casts with these features:
- Three tabs on top
- Filled in gap between eye sockets
- Filled in mouth - grill showing clearly
- Filled in chin vent - level with the neck, covering the whole hole.
- Added neck extension - potentially with the same filler used to fill lens gaps, mouth and chin vent.

The helmets we know come from these mold lineages listed in alphabetical order with the LFL helmets at the top:

Rick Baker Mold:
Tour helmets - Movie Poster helmet
1 Movie helmet (confirmed) - Funeral Pyre helmet
DJ
eFX
SL

UK Mold lineage:
Movie helmets - ESB and RotJ
Tour helmets
20th C
GS
TD
TM
VP

I will add more to the lists as I may have forgotten some.

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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:22 pm 
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MP helmet from the Baker mold. It is a tour helmet but has it's own name.


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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:06 am 
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Cool. Added it as well as the Funeral Pyre helmet.

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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Wasn’t there an early ANH Don Post? Or was that one just one of the Rick Baker touring helmets?

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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:43 pm 
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Nice, comprehensive, list! My tendency is to think that the UK mold was made post production due to the amount of damage captured in the casting and not seeing much evidence of the minor cleanup that was done, theoretically, when the Baker mold was pulled. But just as soon as I reach that conclusion I start to think otherwise lol.


Last edited by dcarty on Wed May 01, 2019 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:49 pm 
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I was referring to this ANH Don Post helmet.

https://www.icollector.com/Original-pro ... _i10030657

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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:57 pm 
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You're right--I totally forgot about that one! That's the one that Ainsworth put up for auction.


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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 5:14 am 
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Well, the reason for this whole post is because I believe I have found something substantial that will help narrow things down on when the UK mold was made.

It is the crack on the rear right side of the face mask, seen in many UK mold lineage casts. The pictures were posted on several online forums including this one, but if anyone has any issues with me using the pictures, please let me know.

It's on the original face mask that Arnaud owns.
Image, on Flickr

It's on the GS.
Image, on Flickr

It's on the TD.
Image, on Flickr

It's on the TM. (Please note that this picture of the TM is after the paint stripping, but before removing the filler, so some details are obscured - I just don't have other pictures of the TM from that side showing that detail, but TM owners can verify the detail is there - perhaps with a better picture of it.)
Image, on Flickr


However, this crack wasn't on the helmet originally and I doubt it's there on the Rick Baker mold castings - anyone who owns an SL can perhaps confirm this!?

This is the best picture I can show that shows that side of the face on the original when it was at Don Post and the crack isn't there - sure, it isn't the best angle. This picture is from the Profiles in History auction.
Image, on Flickr

There are some discrepancies on when Eller let go of the costume and when the helmet should have reportedly been molded for ESB production, but I think it has been shown in the past that the US Rick Baker mold casts and UK mold casts share too many things in common to not be from the same exact source molded at different times in its life - the original screen used helmet - despite there also being differences between the two lineages.

If the conclusion is that the Arnaud face mask is the screen used face mask, and both mold lineages share details with that particular casting, then the UK mold could not have been made at the end of ANH production, nor during the tours, so puts it at around ESB pre-production or even during production, in some way, as both Eller and people at production claims they had it in their possession in '78.

A theory could be that Eller indeed had it until '79, and the helmets used in ESB up until the time production got the original costume back was the ANH spares reworked into ESB, and then additional helmets were made. Though, I hope a paper trail is eventually found to shine a light on this mystery.

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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 2:53 pm 
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Very interesting. Anyone have a raw SL available to examine that area?


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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 4:35 pm 
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It's difficult to say on the SL without examining the master casting. The crack doesn't appear to be there on my copy but I don't know if that area was filled in/modified.


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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 5:48 pm 
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On the Arnaud faceplate in France you can see remnants of clay on different spots (grills, eye sockets, tusk tubes) - clearly leftovers from a molding job. I‘ve seen them in person and one can spot them on the existing images pretty easily. My theory is that the UK mold was a quick job which was done after the repaint of the screen used helmet for the footprint ceremony, perhaps when the faceplate was back in the UK in storage at Nick Harrisons place.


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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 5:52 pm 
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on my Raw SL you can definitely see something there. Problem is its too subtle and I cant tell if it was the crack starting to show and cast before it completely cracked or if it is the remnants of a coverup work:

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 10:04 pm 
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On that Raw casting the little rectangle dent under the tube is nice and visible but hard to see on that classic B and W photo.


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 Post subject: Re: The UK Mold Discussion - Theories and the Facts We Know
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:40 pm 
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With a thin casting it takes very little to make a small thin area into a large crack. It could even show up - like crumbling paper creating a crease - as the more firmer parts of the face mask moves when being handled.

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