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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Fatherless One wrote:
craigjohn wrote:
Fatherless One wrote:
These things make owners nervous, why spend "big bucks" buying these "rare" casts when you can buy a copy for half the amount?

Alan.
I know what I have on my shelf. I know the real lineage and history behind the cast. The TMs are still worth every penny I paid to have these in my collection.


I feel the same as you.

But there are some out there who don't.



I get that - I can only speak for myself. :thumbsup


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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Strider wrote:
craigjohn wrote:
vadermania wrote:
Has it been proven that Steegmueller produced and sold recasts of the TM? If so, I would very much appreciate if you could supply me with some information via PM or E-Mail.

The TM buyers agreement is still in place, only the point regarding sharing pictures of unpainted castings or the original has been amended.


So by Jorg - is this the Jorg people are talking about who recast the TM?

https://www.facebook.com/jorg.steegmuller?fref=ts

Considering I can't imaging there are too many Jorg Steegmuller's in the world, I have to believe "yes".


I find it very disturbing that people are blackmailed here coram publico without any evidence. Please show us proof.



Thomas is asking for proof if anyone has it.


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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:38 pm 
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Off topic


Last edited by Darth Niob on Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:00 pm 
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I don't think this thread is the place to be discussing who recast the TM.

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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:11 pm 
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sskunky wrote:
I don't think this thread is the place to be discussing who recast the TM.


Agreed, back on the incredible GS topic.


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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:33 pm 
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Without a doubt. Since it's hashed out, maybe the admins can pull the discussion and make a new thread, or tack it onto the current thread.

...and yeah. So when are we going to see any new updates on the finished GS ROTJ helmet progress? :)


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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:13 am 
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Sure, we can split the topic. I'll have to see where the best cut point is in the thread. But I'm thinking it's all the way back from when the comparisons with the TM started. Seems more appropriate to have comparisons with other helmets in a separate thread. Mark, let me know where you want it cut, so this stays focused on the GS.

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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:07 am 
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sskunky wrote:
I don't think this thread is the place to be discussing who recast the TM.


Posts removed....sorry for being off topic mate.
Lets discuss this great lid instead off


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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:50 am 
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I am happy to see comparisons with the TM and any other authentic casting against the GS. That's good reading. I just felt as soon as this turned into a witch hunt on who recast the TM it was time to get back on topic. Happy with everything else said, compared and pictured. :toothy

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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:31 am 
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sskunky wrote:
I am happy to see comparisons with the TM and any other authentic casting against the GS. That's good reading. I just felt as soon as this turned into a witch hunt on who recast the TM it was time to get back on topic. Happy with everything else said, compared and pictured. :toothy


I'm looking forward to your next batch of progress shots mate, what I've seen so far is great.

I think the larger (than ESB) lower mouth vent is a ROTJ trait, the bottom of the widows peak in some scenes is flat and in some scenes has a slight downward curve, your choice as to what you go with.
The dome does seem to sit slightly higher against the forehead than ESB, but the height also seems to vary from scene to scene, again your decision as to how you want to address this.

Also some scenes (Endor) have a dulled dome, while other scenes are glossy, again your decision.

Like I said, loving your progress photo's so far.


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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:26 am 
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Yeah, I hope more info can be provided to Mark regarding the perfect look of the RotJ helmet, so he can get everything just right.

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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:39 pm 
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Found a very (which I think is true!) interesting guess in the TD ANH comparison thread.

Quote:
Regarding the cast tabs: do we know of another sample of "original" cast tabs other than the ones seen on the TD and TM (and probably the 20th Century)? All the cast tabs I have seen on faceplates with a "lineage" are identical in size, position and screw position, which tells me that they originate from ONE ancestor, whether this was THE Tantive faceplate or the OTHER/SECOND hero ANH faceplate used for shooting, that I do not know.


(by vaderman)

Maybe it's a bit keen - and I do NOT want to p*** off anybody...but the same rules and restrictions made for potential buyers of castings which have a link to screenused / production made helmets prevent us from doing correct research.

Yes - they prevented folks like SPFX and JB from adding details of an authentic cast to their work. Totally understand that and the logic behind restrictions regarding close up shots.

But: A 20th century copy can be easily obtained for much less than let's say a TD or a TM. What if - when made possible! - research brings to light, that some cheaper casts (like the 20th century) have the SAME ancestor than a let's say TM, VP, TD etc. etc.???

THIS would (I think) let some fear that their rare and never offered publically vader helmet would loose it's value (not so much in money but value in respects of it's rareness)...and that as a guess: then I understand why some folks refuse to show detail shots of their helmets.

On the bottom line: it's not only a matter of being a die hard collector...it's about money. And when it comes to the money issue we all know how things work.

This NOT intended in anyone's specific direction! It's just my 2cents.


Regarding the 3m Apple tabs:

The ANH Vader was sculpted without these (it would be insane to think otherwise). Then a mold was made and this mold plain and simple didn't have these tabs resembled in it. So every mask pulled out of THE original mold comes without any of these mounting installations.

We've seen so far:

- 3M Apple tabs
- metal latch (?) System
- short tube on top (with a step in it which is the bondo fillup underneath this tube)
- large tube without a step

The metal latch system was attached with four screws. The holes of these four screws still can be seen clearly at the GS (and TM) cast.

It seems that the latch mounting system was the first try of the prop makers for attaching the dome to the facemask - which turned out as a failure. They then removed the latch system and added the 3M Apple tabs. I don't think that they then sealed the four holes from the latch system up with bondo. Why should they, it would never be seen on screen since the dome covers the whole area.

The 3M Apple tabs were then present on the screenused ANH Vader. There's a Picture of a crew member, dressing up Prowse and it's clearly visible that these 3M Apple tabs were present on THE ANH screenused mask.

If above assumptions are correct - ANY authentic cast on which rests of these four holes (latch system) can be seen IS a direct cast of THE screenused ANH Vader.

Any authentic cast which doesn't have rests of these four holes on top between the 3M Apple tabs then can't be from the ANH screenused Vader.

...it's so annoying when my lack of englisch is the reason for not expressing me the way I want :angry4 :banger ... I read through this and I feel like an idiot.

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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:39 pm 
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That's completely news to me that the metal latch system (as seen on the MP and other ANH touring helmets in the archives) was tried on the screen used ANH first before they switched to the 3M tabs. Has this been confirmed by an official source? I was always under the impression that there were originally 5 tabs which proved too strong and were therefore reduced to three tabs.


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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:18 pm 
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This was a very quick assumption I did but after checking the picture of the holes on the MP helmet - without it's mounting mechanism I see that my theory is total nonsense regarding the remnants of the four holes on the TM and GS cast.

Anyway:

It was said that it is impossible to compare a GS to a TM ESB. Really?

Image

another one:

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 Post subject: Re: The GS ROTJ Vader helmet owned by original crew member
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:31 pm 
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That's insanely awesome Propsmith.

I'm so glad Mark and company got the green light to run with this helmet (Thank you Greg). The GS is going to be epic in the Vader world, especially the accessibility of it to all Vader fans regardless if you're an ANH, ESB and/or ROTJ fan. :D


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