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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:24 pm
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Location: Berlin
Fener wrote:
Sorry for the ignorance, but: what you mean with "fat-lipped" ROTJ helmet? Can you post a pic of this detail? Thanks! :pale


Unfortunately I'm not able to upload any images atm, but you know what I mean when you watch the scene right before Vader throws the Emperor into the reactor shaft. In the close-ups they used this particular stunt helmet instead of a hero helmet. It has a significantly thicker lower "lip" (the area between the tusks just below the "teeth") compared to the "regular" helmets. That's due to the merging of the fiberglass upper mask with the perspex neck piece.


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:49 pm 
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Location: Denmark
Here you go. On fat-lipped RotJ Stunt coming up.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:51 pm
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Location: Geislingen, Germany
My favorite ROTJ lid :cool:

Has so much more character than all the ubber shiny lids. :drool


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:21 pm 
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Darth Niob wrote:
My favorite ROTJ lid :cool:

Has so much more character than all the ubber shiny lids. :drool


No problem, just cover your lid with talcum powder and finger prints. But I agree with you, it is a cool look.

-----------

As far as Brandon's book goes and in the case of Vader, IMO there is a bit too much reliance on memos. Memos that taken out of context, are misleading. As a business
manager, I have written and received lots of memos and intra-company emails and I can tell you that just because it was written, didn't mean it happened
that way. Things happen. And unless you can see all the memos there is no way to be certain. Even then, there is no way to be certain as not everything ends up in a memo.

I would like to see someone, go in and do real research, take a year or two, go through the archives, the photo archives, the helmets that are out there and truly fill in the gaps. I don't
have a problem with Brandon or his book, it is a good book for the SW masses.

John


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Hi all,

With regards to the Vader helmet information in the costume book -

I've done quite a bit of additional research since we locked the manuscript (nearly a year ago, BTW) and can update what the book says slightly.

There were definitely new helmets made for both ESB and ROJ. There were probably 3-4 standard fiberglass helmets made for ESB and then 1-2 additional stunt helmets with acrylic sections in the face. This is based on what remains in the Archives, private collections, and the numbering of the helmets that still exist.

For ROJ I would say exactly the same - likely 3-4 standard fiberglass helmets, and then 1-2 additional stunt helmets. The majority of these are still in the Archives. They are all different to ESB helmets - there are very distinct differences between the castings and construction/assembly methods used on the two films.

I saw no helmets that had any evidence of having been converted from the original ANH helmet (but, perhaps they wouldn't show that evidence.) No elements of the first film Vader costume exist in the Archives, or any private collection that I'm aware of.

I did have full access to the archives and all known Vader helmets while researching the book. Of course there could be others in private hands (for example the Christies 94 helmet - I do not know where that one is. I also don't know if it's genuine.) I had access to some of the Lucasfilm Image Archives, but not all.

As for the statement about memos - the only information that came from a memo was regarding the ILM tour suits made for ROJ. This information was verified by a number of ex-Lucasfilm publicity people, ILM model shop crew who worked on the costumes, the existence of the ILM tour helmets in the Archives, and photos of the ILM tour helmets at public events from the time.

I would have loved to include more Vader content, and indeed more content on everything, but of course we were working within set boundaries on page count and length, and we had a lot of costumes to cover.

I hope everyone enjoys the book...

Very best
Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:37 pm
Posts: 31
Brandon,

Thank you for providing that insight for me and sharing it with the fans. I am glad I started this thread! :-) Love the book!

BA100583 wrote:
Hi all,

With regards to the Vader helmet information in the costume book -

I've done quite a bit of additional research since we locked the manuscript (nearly a year ago, BTW) and can update what the book says slightly.

There were definitely new helmets made for both ESB and ROJ. There were probably 3-4 standard fiberglass helmets made for ESB and then 1-2 additional stunt helmets with acrylic sections in the face. This is based on what remains in the Archives, private collections, and the numbering of the helmets that still exist.

For ROJ I would say exactly the same - likely 3-4 standard fiberglass helmets, and then 1-2 additional stunt helmets. The majority of these are still in the Archives. They are all different to ESB helmets - there are very distinct differences between the castings and construction/assembly methods used on the two films.

I saw no helmets that had any evidence of having been converted from the original ANH helmet (but, perhaps they wouldn't show that evidence.) No elements of the first film Vader costume exist in the Archives, or any private collection that I'm aware of.

I did have full access to the archives and all known Vader helmets while researching the book. Of course there could be others in private hands (for example the Christies 94 helmet - I do not know where that one is. I also don't know if it's genuine.) I had access to some of the Lucasfilm Image Archives, but not all.

As for the statement about memos - the only information that came from a memo was regarding the ILM tour suits made for ROJ. This information was verified by a number of ex-Lucasfilm publicity people, ILM model shop crew who worked on the costumes, the existence of the ILM tour helmets in the Archives, and photos of the ILM tour helmets at public events from the time.

I would have loved to include more Vader content, and indeed more content on everything, but of course we were working within set boundaries on page count and length, and we had a lot of costumes to cover.

I hope everyone enjoys the book...

Very best
Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:13 am
Posts: 4
Location: Sydney, Australia
Thanks for posting Brandon.
Hey- what an awesome opportunity, it must have been a dream com true!
I haven't yet got my hands on the book, so excuse me if its answered in the book,
Did you manage to talk to Ron punter and look at his facemask in your research?
There was a thread on this forum that had some good info & queries.
Would love to know what you think
Thanks
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:30 pm 
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Thanks for the thread & following thru with the notifier zac


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Posts: 361
Location: Berlin
Thanks for your awesome book and the additional information Brandon. Hardly can't wait for the extended edition ;)

When I met Ron Punter about 3 years ago at Elstee Studios (I was researching the origins of my old TM helmet at that time) he told me that ESB Vader lids were refurbished for use in ROTJ. He also said that his faceplate is a leftover screenused ESB faceplate. Have you had a chance to chat with him about it?


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:40 am
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I did chat with Ron - what a nice guy. I also examined his helmet. I think Ron would be one of the first to say it's difficult to remember every detail from that period.

Examining an ESB and ROJ helmet side by side, there are numerous differences in their construction. I do not think there is any chance the ROJ helmets are ESB's refurbished. The way the helmets are numbered (where they're numbered, paint color etc) is also distinct film to film. For some numbers, both the ESB and ROJ versions still exist (if that makes sense.)

Ron's helmet is interesting. I can't say exactly what it is - there are things about it that do not match any other known helmets, including the fine-weave finishing fiberglass cloth on the inside of the faceplate, and the paintwork on the exterior. It's possible it was repainted over the years.

I know everyone likes to put things into definitive terms "IE - there were 6 Vader helmets for ESB" but I found that is very, very difficult to do. You never know when new information will emerge, how accurate memories are, etc. The research goes on...

Best,
Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:37 pm
Posts: 31
Most welcome M! :-) I reached out to Brandon he was gracious enough to get back to me immediately and respond to this thread. Glad this type of info is finally shared with the public. Thanks again for being so responsive Brandon! We appreciate it.

Mickxc wrote:
Thanks for the thread & following thru with the notifier zac


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:13 am
Posts: 4
Location: Sydney, Australia
Thanks for the feedback Brandon.

Are there any photos that didnt make the final edit that you are able to share with us vader enthusiasts ?
Details & obscure angles- we love it.

Thanks for disclosing what you have.
Regards
Mike

BA100583 wrote:
I did chat with Ron - what a nice guy. I also examined his helmet. I think Ron would be one of the first to say it's difficult to remember every detail from that period.

Examining an ESB and ROJ helmet side by side, there are numerous differences in their construction. I do not think there is any chance the ROJ helmets are ESB's refurbished. The way the helmets are numbered (where they're numbered, paint color etc) is also distinct film to film. For some numbers, both the ESB and ROJ versions still exist (if that makes sense.)

Ron's helmet is interesting. I can't say exactly what it is - there are things about it that do not match any other known helmets, including the fine-weave finishing fiberglass cloth on the inside of the faceplate, and the paintwork on the exterior. It's possible it was repainted over the years.

I know everyone likes to put things into definitive terms "IE - there were 6 Vader helmets for ESB" but I found that is very, very difficult to do. You never know when new information will emerge, how accurate memories are, etc. The research goes on...

Best,
Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:00 pm
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No Humor Man wrote:
Here you go. On fat-lipped RotJ Stunt coming up.



Ok! Thanks NHM and vadermania! :cheers


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:57 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Thanks Brandon for sharing your insights regarding OT costumes LFL archives, both in your book and in the forums. Any of us would have relished the opportunity to have such access! (though we would have spent a disproportionately greater amount of time lingering in the Vader section :wink: ).

The origins of the ROTJ mask have been discussed and debated often (e.g. was ROTJ pulled from a mold of the ANH helmet?, a refurbished ESB?, etc.). Your being able to objectively compare ESB and ROTJ in-hand, side-by-side gives your assessment a high degree of credence and reliability.

Your conclusion that ROTJ is not a refurbished ESB is both enlightening and significant.


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 Post subject: Re: SW Costumes: Six ESB Darth Vader helmets & 2-3 stunt hel
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:10 am 
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Hi Brandon!
Very nice to have you here.
From all costumes book's i have i like yours the most :toothy


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