I would like to start moving this thread back to the helmet in question; Christie's/Profiles in History or the C-PIH.
However, I do feel it is important to understand all the helmets and in order to do that, some prior assumptions should be put aside or re-evaluated.
What should never be forgotten is that these helmets were simply tools and nothing more. They were not constructed to be admired centerpieces in someone's collection. They were only
the bare minimum they had to be to do a job. But on that note; they for sure had to get the job done and the production would do whatever they had to, to ensure that they would.
And that would mean specialization.
As I said at the beginning of this thread, I do not feel that these helmets could be truly defined simply by the designation of 'Hero' or 'Stunt'. Each helmet was purpose built on a scene by scene basis.
What was that helmet going to have to do or endure in that scene to get that shot in the can?
Obviously there were going to be many times that Vader was in a tight close-up shot, and several helmets were produced with a higher degree of matching detail and finish that could stand up to close scrutiny,
and these helmets could be considered to be 'hero'. But having said that, they were still purpose built, specifically to stand up to close detail scrutiny and still appear to be the same helmet.
However, it was not always necessary to reproduce this high level of detail and duplication on every helmet. Sometimes Vader was going to be doing action scenes (not stunt) moving and at a distance or in
lighting where the precise accuracy of the small details just would not matter.
Sometimes function outweighed detail. In the case of the catwalk Vader, the helmet needed to help Prowse move safely on a catwalk suspended 30 feet in the air while standing up to 30 mile per hour
winds to deliver lines in both medium and tight close-up shots.
To acheive this, Catwalk Vader was a hybrid. It had just enough of the necessary detail for the close-ups, while at the same time having special action oriented features to get the job done. Most obvious, a recessed,
thinner lattice chin grill which helped Prowse to see his feet and not fall off the platform. Thanks to the lighting of the shots, this grill was always in the shadows. But originally Luke was going to fly upwards when
he jumped and Vader would watch him go up, which revealed the chin grille. But this wasn't the only modification made to help improve visibility. More on that ahead.
Another helmet to buck the heavy winds is this one below:
As Vader makes his way up to the camera his capes are flying everywhere, but his dome doesn't move. We can also see in this shot that the chin grille on this helmet is deeply
recessed also. Like the catwalk Vader, this helmet and the rolling Degoba cave helmet have recessed chin grills and the ability to resist torsional stresses to their domes.
So it is very possible that these helmets might vary from the known examples of 'authentic screen used helmets'. Especially when there are only two such examples.
I understand that the privately owned ESB hero (PO ESB) and the ESB stunt are the only acknowledged authentic screen used helmets. The reason for this is obvious, except
for damage, they have remained unchanged from their original ESB appearance. The reason the stunt helmet remained unchanged is also obvious, It's Perspex cheeks and neck make
it unique and one of a kind, it was also damaged during filming, having it's left tusk broken off on the catwalk fight with Luke, as such, it was unsuitable for tour use or modification to
an ROTJ. No longer having any real productive value to LFL it was allowed to exit the archives and end up in private hands.
The missing tusk is still visible during the cave fight scene also.
As to exactly why a helmet leaves the archives and ends up in private hands, I can only speculate. The only helmet that I know why it left LFL is the C-PIH. However, there have been other helmets that left
the archives and one seems to be both acknowledged and yet not acknowledged as authentic screen used. That would be the Planet Hollywood Vader.
Everyone seems to agree that it is this Vader helmet used in ROTJ, which is obviously an ESB.
Yet no one is willing to acknowledge it as a known screen used ESB Vader helmet. Huh?
So Along comes C-PIH, and nobody wants to say its real because it just doesn't match that ESB Hero or the stunt. But then again, neither does the Degoba 'rolling helmet', or the Hoth corridor helmet.
First the dome. It's an ROTJ. Screw the dome, it's been modified.
vadermania wrote:
According to Ron Punter, painter of the OT Vader helmets at Elstree paint shop, most of the remaining Vader helmets from ESB were reworked for use in ROTJ. He sanded, bondoed and repainted them (plus other Vader hardware) in person in his shop. And I've seen pics from that time proving that. Punter has one original ESB faceplate in his personal collection which wasn't repainted for ROTJ.
Screen-used original Vader lids were reworked / repainted at different occasions by ILM guys. One of the main ROTJ vader faceplates was outfitted with larger velcro straps - I have pics of that process actually.
And actually, C-PIH does have things in common with the stunt. And so does MOTM.
Looking at the pic just below of the rolling helmet, I noticed that the tusks looked broader or more squat than I expected, they didn't seem like the tusks seen in close-ups or on the R. Punter mask.
Comparing it to the bridge window shot tusks, it was clear that these tusks were much more robust and possible larger.
So I went back to the face shot and noticed that the tusks appear to be much bigger than the tubes and when I compared it with the closest angle match I could find of a Hero close-up ,
the difference in tusk size was immediately noticeable. The tube is smaller on the rolling helmet, but the tusk is much larger.
The first thought I had was, 'was it alone?' I soon spotted the same tusks on the 'stunt' helmet. What was up with that?
Since the tubes are severely damaged on so many helmets, what we know about them tends to come from period images of ESB 'hero' helmets. The assumption being made, that they
were all casted complete as part of the facemask and as such should be of a uniform size and shape. And when it comes to the close-up or 'hero' helmets that was most likely the case.
However, it appears the more action oriented helmets such as the stunt (and subsequently MOTM and C-PIH) indicate this was not the norm for all helmets. These helmets seem to have the forward tube
constructed rather than cast. Look at the comparison below, the architecture of the top tube just below the edge if the cheek on C-PIH and the stunt are nearly identical, a bump followed by
a dip as you travel back. The hero is smooth and flowing, with no such architecture. Since they used only a small 'pin' hole and epoxy to secure the tusks, the damage to the tubes usually only
extended a short distance on the 'hero' helmets. But the damage to the stunt helmet and MOTM extends further back because they were also fitted with brass inserts.
Since the tubes on the stunt are broken off it has always been assumed that they had the same architecture as the hero helmets, but the damage is more consistent with MOTM.
And the stunt, MOTM and C-PIH share a very similar tube architecture.
(Time for some JLM artwork) While it is plain to see the Hero helmets had a cast tube with a small hole at the tube end for a 'pin' to hold the tusk...
C-PIH, the stunt and MOTM all have what I call a constructed or reinforced tube end with brass inserts, as I illustrated below.
It is this addition of the brass insert, that caused C-PIH to have a narrower tube end. When I first examined the images of
C-PIH, I thought that the lines across the tubes just below the face edge of the cheek were just more runs in the lacquer that
farmer sprayed all over the helmet. But further examination indicated that they were physical cuts or notches in the tube.
Similar notches can be seen on the stunt helmet and MOTM. Coincidently, (or not) this is the same location of vivisection used
on the ROTJ 'Anakin reveal' which may have been constructed during ESB.
A hint of this brass insert can be seen poking out on MOTM.
Somewhere at some point I had found close up images of the C-PIH helmet with the tusks removed and you could see the brass inserts, the face of the brass insert was as wide as the
tube or tusk and had an approx. 4mm diameter, threaded hole. If C-PIH is the 'rolling helmet' it makes sense that it would have heavy duty tusks and brass inserts.
The narrower tube and the 'bump' in architecture can be seen in this image also.
Now to the Grills. C-PIH was also discredited for not having a screen accurate chin grille.
Yet it is completely consistent with the rolling helmet and Hoth corridor helmet, who's deep-set, petite chin lattices made it easier to your feet . (A fine grill mesh, consistent with screen
used ROTJ Helmets was installed behind the regular grille at some point altering the grills appearance in some images. This mesh is damaged also and more noticeable in some pics.)
As I said before, the catwalk Vader had more than just a recessed chin grille to help Prowse to see his mark...
As to the Teeth, Sithlord was correct to point out a correlation between C-PIH and MOTM (MOM), but for the wrong reason. MOTM is not an ROTJ.
This narrowing depth to the teeth had nothing to do with ROTJ, just like the chin grill, it had everything to do with
visibility. Thinning the
teeth as you went up was a quick, non obvious way to increase the field of visibility. Again, not needed on a hero and not really needed on the stunt
which achieved greater visibility by the use of Perspex windows.
SithLord wrote:
Now to those pesky ICI Perspex 912 eye lenses Christies and PIH talked so much about. Lucasfilm used exclusively ICI (Imperial Chemical Industries) Perspex 504 and 912
tinted thermo-form plastic on Vader helmets. Most of the helmets used 504 Brown for eye lenses because it made it harder to see your eyes. But visibility was better with
the 912 Neutral. But for the Stunt helmet, they used both, 504 for the eyes and 912 for the neck and cheek faces.
CapevaderC posted this image of the stunt helmet showing what looks like ICI Perspex marketing samples(?), but it clearly shows the use
of Perspex 504 and 912 plastic on the stunt. But the 504 was not an exclusive on the eyes.
The Degoba rolling helmet as has 912 Neutral eyes. It clearly does not use the 504 as the greenish tint is evident in the image.
(Note: I tried tweeking the tint of this pic in every way I could think of to make the eyes look golden brown and just couldn't do it without the
overall color of the pic being obviously wrong. Also, for those of you with Microsoft Image Editor, you can test the color match. At the bottom of the
editor screen is a small box that tells you what color something is. Just run your cursor over the eye under the sample insert and again on the
sample insert itself. Do the same with the 504. The 912 is the obvious match.)
I am aware there are things about the C-PIH that just don't seem to match, but there are a lot more things that do. The things that don't could have been altered, the things that do just
have no reason to have been altered. And so, I am not done yet. I stopped because it took me a week to put this one post together and I am sorry that it is so incredibly long.
One of the main things you have to consider about these helmets, is that they had a history after the production. They didn't just sit on the shelf with a sign saying do not touch. As long as
Lucas was making Star Wars films they had potential uses and as such may have seen a mod here and there.
From what I've read, C-PIH was delivered to Farmer for the sole purpose of recasting it and making new tour helmets. He took the helmet apart, removed its grills and eye lenses,
he cleaned it up, made repairs and did some repainting to prepare the helmet for casting. He then put it back together and for the next 20 years it was in storage. It was never
used as a tour helmet, which is why it is in reasonably good shape. Although LFL loaned Farmer the helmet, they never requested its return. At some point, to preserve it, someone
at Farmer sprayed a clear lacquer on the helmet which ran all over and built up around the edges, further altering its appearance.
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John