vadermania wrote:
Here's the original excerpt from Prowses book / ESB diary: 26 March - Day One (for Prowse): "...Apart from a fencing rehearsal with Peter Diamond, I did nothing all day. Put the Vader suit on in the afternoon but the helmet is not sitting straight so alterations have to be made." ...28 March: "Did one shot today of me storming through the wreckage of the control centre. Had the mask and the helmet on for the second time, the first time to actually work in it. It's still awful. The mask doesn't sit right on the face and the helmet angle is all wrong, exposing the back of my neck, added to which I cannot see out of the eyepieces so I don't know where I'm going on set."
banthapoodoo wrote:
We ask the question why is an ANH mask being used in this initially-shot ESB Vader scene? And we may speculate that someone made an error and picked out the wrong mask (ANH not ESB). But how probable is it that? For the first scene shot with a Darth Vader helmet in a MAJOR motion picture, could such a mistake could happen? I'd say there would be LOTS of scrutiny that would make that unlikely. As DarthObsession considered the possibility, I'm of the opinion that this was not an error but that the use of the ANH-style smaller chin vent may have been the prop department's intended "Mark I" ESB mask.
Some interesting insights from Dave there. Obviously they were still working on the helmet right up to the day they started shooting. And the riser seems to be one of the biggest issues. But the one thing we don't know, is exactly when they decided to go with a larger chin grille? Dave keeps complaining about not being able to see and he said this in a lot of interviews. Is it not possible that the larger chin grille wasn't always in the plan? Perhaps it was a response to Dave's complaining about not being able to see? Admittedly, in 20/20 hindsight, the helmet looks better with a larger chin grille, but they may not have seen it that way at the time. For all we know, it hadn't even occurred to them and the ESB was going to have the same chin grille as the ANH. I'm sure there had to be a certain reluctance to make any real sweeping change to the Vader mask. I know I was really pissed off when I saw Empire for the first time, and saw that they had changed Vader's appearance. It took me years to get used to it.
And I agree that the helmet that Dave is wearing is a Mark I, or prototype. I do think it unlikely that someone grabbed the wrong helmet (as in an ANH instead of an ESB) but I don't think that's the case. And, in lieu of this new information from Dave (and Vadermania). I would say that is definitely unlikely.
Again, it should be noted, that Dave didn't shoot another scene for nearly a month, so most likely they were working on finalizing the helmet during that period.
SithLord wrote:
Darth Obsession wrote:
Okay, only one small problem. I do not recognize either one of these images. I can't tell which ROTJ helmet that is, or what the source image is. Also, I don't recognize that image of the Don Bies helmet either. And to draw a conclusion, I need a frame of reference, and though your pictures are nicely done, they don't give me that. So please do me a favor, how about showing the original uncropped pictures. I don't care if they are full-size or whatever, but I need to know which ROTJ you're showing me and since I don't recognize the picture you're showing me of the Don Bies helmet either, you obviously have a picture I haven't seen before, and as I said before, if anybody's got any other pictures of this helmet, I would like to see them.
Sure thing. I'll get those posted when I get back to my home computer. The top one is from the primary auction front view of the Bies helmet on the armor.
I'm still waiting.