Had a chance to speak with someone close to Rick Baker. Asked as detailed a set of questions as I could about changes to ANH Vader before molding.

What I got back from this individual was that Baker was asked to make publicity costumes at some point after Star Wars and that was the original reason for casting the hero helmet.

I didn't dig any further because this person would then detect the insane neurosis we share here and run terrified into the night...

...as well he should. lol!

I appreciate you sharing this info. Would have loved to hear more... but as you said... that would likely scare any sane person away.

Very interesting, John, hope you can share more if you run into the guy again.

The two main questions I have that I've always liked answered regarding the Baker mold is what was done to the cast prior to molding - ie: whether it was only filled in at undercuts and chin vent filled and tabs removed, or whether it was repainted and "repaired" prior to molding or whether that was done after - if he was even involved with the fixing up of the helmet.

The second is to lock down an approximate date on the molding and whether it was during the re-shoots when he worked on the cantina scene stuff, or if it was well after production and during the tours - prior to the footprint ceremony... or even after.

There was obviously a repainting / touch up of the hero helmet around this time.
I wonder if this happened after / as a consequence of / the molding process?

Hello! Those are EXACTLY the questions I would have asked were there any kind of opening to insanity. And to my recollection I don't think the DJ/ SL chin vent was filled. Tabs were certainly removed for the Rick Baker mold (makes sense anyway, doesn't it?!). And I really really doubt that there was any paint touch ups either since you can see brush strokes in the helmet and face. The only thing I was ever alerted to was clay under one of the side rods/ tubes I think. Is that correct?

And as far as that tube/ rod thing goes the concern may not always be an undercut. It could be that the recess in there was so gritty and toothy that clay was put there to smooth it out so that the mold/ rubber would not catch over time.

Another thing that tells me the paint was not touched in any big way is that the eyes are still the same eyes. Any big overhaul has the eyes coming out unless one is nuts.

But who are we to judge "nuts?" If we were any more insane we'd be dangerous. I mean - think about it - if the propden folks here were given a country to run it would be a drug using police state with lots of public nudity and 24 hour movie theaters.

Question - do we have before/ after shots of any clay on the Screen Used helmet vs. Rick Baker casting? I didn't read about that until Prop Den.

You see those on painted SLs and TMs too, so painting the casts clearly doesn't eradicate or remove the details unless the layer of paint is too thick. What painting does is removing the brush stroke look in the coverage of the gunmetal color, but not the actual physical brush stroke detail of the previous paint job. It's like repainting your walls - you remove the damage and fading and areas where other paint is seen through the top layer, but you don't remove the surface detail. From what I've seen, the brush strokes on the Baker casts are much more muted than the brush strokes on still visible on the TM - the muting can have come from the molding material used, of course, but could also indicate a repaint - and you see surface granularity on the Baker casts that are on top of and independent of the brush stroke surface detail. At least that's what I'm seeing from the photos posted by SL.

The undercut fill on the tubes was only temporary.

Another look at the original paint detail on the SL ANH, down to the almost microscopic level. Yes it won't be perfectly identical all over the mask, but I have yet to see a casting with more original detail than this, and I don't see any evidence of repainting.



















So I'm not sure why there are some that keep thinking there was repaint done on the original mask prior to the Rick Baker mold being taken. I've not even shown all the details that have been retained. For example, the black trimark on Vader's left side of the neck. It is there on the SL ANH. I have yet to see any casting that shows as much original detail up close. If I'm incorrect, then I would love to see similar closeup shots of the same areas.

Explain the vertical paint strokes on the SL then. Similar to the paint direction seen on the repaint. There are more such alternate directional surface details on top of the brush strokes and details that are from the Tantive look. Just because the details are retained, you have to look at what was captured in the molding additional to that. Did the painting of your SL cast remove the details on the cast? You said so yourself that in some cases it made them show up more clearly. Sure, the TM is not perfect in the same regard as the SL as being untouched out of the mold, I'll give you that, but it doesn't have the same alternate surface detail as I keep seeing in every single comparison you show. You only focus on the things that match... try explaining all the things that doesn't. In that picture alone... there are twice as many details on the SL that doesn't match than what matches... same with the TM - but the TM still only has brush strokes and paint details going in one direction, not two.

Also, as we've seen in past debates over clarity of features, lighting plays a huge part in this. How you light something can cause a very shallow feature to appear prominent, and vice versa.

Out of interest because I dont know the background, is there any reason why someone doesn't just ask Rick about all this? Is it a case if him not being willing to talk about it or does he just not remember?

What I've heard, so take this with a grain of salt, is that he doesn't want to have anything to do with the kind of drama that goes on with forums like this. Frankly I can't say I blame the guy.

Yeah, we can be some damn fanatical idiots sometimes.

That's why I didn't dig any further. He'd probably hand me some money and say, "Listen. This is yours. I'm giving this to you. But you have to use it to get help, okay?"