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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Darthvaderv wrote:
For the pro's the Baker mould has it isn't 100% accurate. There are various aspects not just one little thing. As for seeing something better that is not a valid argument to support it's screen accuracy. Fact is it isn't this ultimate copy exact to what we see on screen. I've found many errors but I see no need to publically highlight them at this stage. If you think the Baker mould without clean up is perfect I'm surprised. Are you really saying that you think everything matches 100%? It's a high end and well detailed casting if left in tact but perfect it's not.



No certainly not 100%, but you talk about it like it is only 60% accurate. But if one were to look for something better, it would have no imperfections based on the way it came out of the mold, which is difficult to achieve, and the mask would not have the tusk tubes filled in. But if you consider what is there, the original lenses, the most minute details in the paint, and even the tusk tube ends which had the tusks taken off for molding by Rick Baker, those ends are still identical to what you see onscreen. I would say, even conservatively, that it is at least 90-95% identical. Would I want something that is 97 or 98%? Sure. Where could we get that from then? Would we get that from a 1st gen master casting from the "UK" mold? That mold was earlier, so perhaps, but then again the helmet itself experienced wear during filming so whether it would reflect the Tantive IV detail is open to question. And about showing something better, it is valid. If someone has a casting that we can compare any detail to with the screen helmet, then I could provide a corresponding image and we could then see which has retained more detail.

If there are errors then I would keep in mind that you have a copy, not the master. Would you consider the filled tusk tubes an "error"? An error implies a mistake. If something is inaccurate, then it is either because it was removed (sanding, finishing, etc.), or it is lost generationally, or it is a problem with a particular pull (bubbles, pits, warping, etc.). So there is a distinction to be made between an "error" in your casting versus an "error" in the SL ANH in general.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:06 pm 
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I still think your TD is hiding some interesting things under the paint that we will sadly never see, but I understand the reasons completely for preserving it as-is. Even with the shorter tubes and some other minor issues, I think it trumps the Rick Baker mold face mask. But, that's just me. The TM is showing some of the things we can expect from a 1st gen casting from the UK mold, which the TD may very well be from or one of (heck, when making a mold, who in their right mind wouldn't make casts from it to test it, right)... and the TD itself shows great many interesting things in comparison and collaboration with the TM... it just has that bloody annoying well worth preserving goddamned paint on it... GRR.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:09 pm
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SL do you think you would ever consider stripping the TD?


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Albatrossone wrote:
SL do you think you would ever consider stripping the TD?

You would sadly lose a lot of history of the prop by doing so... and it's not certain what hides underneath will be worth it. TM chanced it with his TM face mask, but he removed authentic paint and history in the process... it's never a win-win in these situations... it's more like weighing history you know with unknown history and what is more worth being preserved. You just can't be sure that stripping the paint off of it is worth it in the end. For the most part I'd go with known history.

The TM gave us a significant glimpse. It isn't complete. The TD may give more, it may give less... it's unknown.

You know what you have and it is worth a great deal. You don't know what you may get - if any worth at all - compared to what you had.

Even though I'd LOVE to see what's under the paint, if that original TD face mask was mine, it would stay as it is. Some history is just not worth removing/destroying.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Well it's easy to play fast and loose with someone else's possessions. I'd strip it now. Not if it belonged to me though! What we need is someone on the forum with accesss to an MRI scanner or something.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Albatrossone wrote:
Well it's easy to play fast and loose with someone else's possessions. I'd strip it now. Not if it belonged to me though! What we need is someone on the forum with accesss to an MRI scanner or something.

Such a scan could run about $10,000 - don't know many with that kind of cash just for such minimal results.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Well just with a quick google search you can get a privately done MRI scan in the uk for £200-£400. Admittedly don't know what they would say to you turning up with a vader faceplate though :) but I was generalising - there are multiple options - ultrasound, x ray etc. it may be that none of these would actually yield decent results, not what the process was designed for of course, but wondering if anyone had ever investigated it...


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:40 pm 
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Well, is it even fine enough to distinguish between the different layers of paint and the top gelcoat layer?

If it could go down to below the surface of the paint, down to the actual raw mask, the scan could then be processed and printed at a high end printer.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:51 pm 
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You may be right. But what made me think of it is the scan we just had for number two son. The level of sharpness and detail they can get to is absolutely astonishing - even over the past two years the tech had moved on a long way.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:31 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Darthvaderv wrote:
For the pro's the Baker mould has it isn't 100% accurate. There are various aspects not just one little thing. As for seeing something better that is not a valid argument to support it's screen accuracy. Fact is it isn't this ultimate copy exact to what we see on screen. I've found many errors but I see no need to publically highlight them at this stage. If you think the Baker mould without clean up is perfect I'm surprised. Are you really saying that you think everything matches 100%? It's a high end and well detailed casting if left in tact but perfect it's not.



No certainly not 100%, but you talk about it like it is only 60% accurate. But if one were to look for something better, it would have no imperfections based on the way it came out of the mold, which is difficult to achieve, and the mask would not have the tusk tubes filled in. But if you consider what is there, the original lenses, the most minute details in the paint, and even the tusk tube ends which had the tusks taken off for molding by Rick Baker, those ends are still identical to what you see onscreen. I would say, even conservatively, that it is at least 90-95% identical. Would I want something that is 97 or 98%? Sure. Where could we get that from then? Would we get that from a 1st gen master casting from the "UK" mold? That mold was earlier, so perhaps, but then again the helmet itself experienced wear during filming so whether it would reflect the Tantive IV detail is open to question. And about showing something better, it is valid. If someone has a casting that we can compare any detail to with the screen helmet, then I could provide a corresponding image and we could then see which has retained more detail.

If there are errors then I would keep in mind that you have a copy, not the master. Would you consider the filled tusk tubes an "error"? An error implies a mistake. If something is inaccurate, then it is either because it was removed (sanding, finishing, etc.), or it is lost generationally, or it is a problem with a particular pull (bubbles, pits, warping, etc.). So there is a distinction to be made between an "error" in your casting versus an "error" in the SL ANH in general.



No not referrring to it as 60% but more 90% and 10% is off enough in my opinion. Master or not i've seen nothing to convince me from other sources in colaboration with such things as the mould (who haven't exposed these things publically) that while it's a great cast it has flaws that I've hinted to and like you say I would like things as close to movie accuracy as possible. It may be fussy or anal but that's certainly what we strive for and definately a valid point in my somewhat brief assessment. As I said numerous times before the authentic castings between them all have their positives and negatives.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:49 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:26 am
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alright. the Den is back up and running..
now im hoping Sithlord will do his review/comparison analyzation of his efx helmets and the SL.
looking forward to that for sure.. :thumbsup


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:57 am
Posts: 472
Someone better start talkin' some smack. I'm ready to read some diagnostics.

Somebody do a huge line of blow in front of their keypad and start with the words, "The bottom of the left flange..."


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:21 am
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Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
LOLOLOLOL

The Den is BACK!!


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 554
Location: Hampton Wick UK
darthjones wrote:
Someone better start talkin' some smack. I'm ready to read some diagnostics.

Somebody do a huge line of blow in front of their keypad and start with the words, "The bottom of the left flange..."

Classic! :toothy


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 42
Here is my efx Limited Edition Vader. There is some paint loss on the ridge next to the nose, other than that I think it is fantastic. For me, this is the helmet (mask) I have always wanted since walking out of Star Wars in 1977 just before I turned 12.

I've followed with interest the discussions of details and reviews of different versions of the Vader helmet by people here. There is a ton of knowledge and opinions and I have learned a lot, but I've come to realize I never noticed any of those minor details when I watched the film in many different theaters over the summer of 1977.

Star Wars was a film, and things were moving. Trying to match the details you find in still frames instead of the impression left from those pictures moving on a big screen just isn't that important to me.

Anyway, it's not perfect, but it makes me happy....

Image

Image

I have a good quality 24 megapixel camera and a few different lenses, so if someone wants a specific angle I would be happy to post other pictures. These picture were with my 50mm lens.


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