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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:31 pm 
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Encased,

The lack of a structural C-scar on the eFX by no means diminishes its value. I did not expect it to be on the eFX. Out of intellectual curiosity, many non-TM owners and some TM owners, SL owners, VP owners, etc. wondered what textural detail survived the mold.

There are two types of textures however: the inherited textures (those physically on the screen used) and those created as a result of the molding process (e.g. air pockets of different sizes and shapes). These would have resulted in artifacts not on the screen used.

If the screenused Vader had in any way been repainted or resurfaced by the time it got into Rick Baker's hands, it would have less surface details. If the screenused got knocked around or damaged by fanatical fans trying to touch Kermit's helmet, then Rick Baker's mold would have captured these. These would have resulted in artifacts not on the screen used.

If the mask had been resurfaced to where the scar was barely noticable, Gino may simply have missed it when inspecting it, because on other authentic casts that came from the Rick Baker mold, it requires very careful study to spot it in the casting, let alone in the mold.

This is off topic, as it would be about the politics, but let me just touch on it briefly.

The fuss is where Gino supposed it was painted but stated it strongly and emphatically as fact. He then poured oil into the fire by stating that the TM scar is a fabrication, and that any voicing contrary opinion are therefore speaking out of jealousy or are protecting a financial vested interest in their own helmets. That's like saying, "I will say what I like, but if you oppose me, you are guilty." Then Gino's typical attack dogs rallied around that, and it became civil war. This is the same kind of cyberbullying I've seen him do over the last 5-6 years. We who knew of the C-scar truth should have spotted this tactic earlier on and not fallen for it. We were just as guilty in adding heat to an already-existing hotbed.

People don't realize Gino not only has a financial interest but a publicity and prestige interest. His perception as a final authority is at stake if the C-scar is not painted as he has stated with such assumed authority and presumed finality. Prior to his work on the eFX, Gino could be seen posting pics of his Vader mannequin on other boards hoping to get noticed by an eFX or Sideshow. Hey, it worked. More power to him. Were my unabashed goal to be recognized by fans, I might have done the same, so I can't exactly fault Gino there. What I have issue with is his attitude and conduct.

Back to the C-scar. There are people in the fandom who have had access to the Rick Baker mold long before Gino ever touched a casting from eFX, or have had masks descended from that same mold and thus have seen what the masks look like pre-clean-up. I'll let them step forward and share if they feel comfortable and are not assailed by the typical fanatical attack dogs.

Regarding your last comment, your best option for a great ANH is the eFX. But if you don't want to spend that amount of money, I have a humble project that might help. Go to the end of this thread: face-transplant-restoration-of-a-ghost-host-anh-vt1977.html


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:22 am 
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Elsewhere here on the Den, we have an interesting question:

RBJ wrote:
Why is it that when such a minute detail is shown on a Vader helmet matching screen caps 100% , it is obviously sculpted..BUT..when such a minute detail shows up on a Stormtropper helmet it is only possible by recasting "the only screen accurate molds" and not possible by sculpting.. :dope


It's interesting that despite my having posted on the RPF about this thread, people aren't coming over to examine the hi-res photos here but are instead speaking with authority that the scar is a paint job.

One argument states that because the lighting is coming from the left (see below) and the scar is visible, it therefore must be paint.

Image

However, I set up a Darth Ugly facemask and used a studio lamp. I managed to approximate the shadow angle, size and degree of blur. The light source of the left photo is not from the left side, but is more in-line with the camera - possibly a little off to the left, but not the far left by a long shot. Thus, I say the argument is incorrect.

This inspired me to photograph my TM using diffused lighting - but not from above - to see what the scar would look like. My initial photo looked like this. Bear with me, the mask is a bit dusty.

Image

The mask is on a table, and by the window. I have an off-white curtain closed, so the lighting is diffused. Notice the scar is less visible from this specific light source's angle. The sense of depth is reduced. People can see the white streaks and say "That's just paint. There is no depth."

Earlier on over at the RPF, I pointed out that this scar is, on a very small scale, like a mountain ridge, so can be studied like topographical phenomenon, which has been known to appear differently depending on time of day, with changing angles of light and depths of shadows cast by the terrain.

Here are four examples. I photographed them with a tripod and lined them up in Photoshop, so they are to-the-pixel accurate so anyone can do their own Photoshop analysis and make up their own mind.

I've even washed the cheek of my mask for you guys! :thumbsup

Image

In the above shot, note the primary lighting is lower left, but the lighting in my room is diffused because of the curtain. It's still pretty bright. Notice that the white line of the scar is almost GONE because the scar is a ledge that catches overhead light the best.

Image

Here, above, I put a kitchen mat close to the mask to block as much light, so you can see more even illumination from the room. The scar is almost INVISBLE save for a dark crescented area. NOTE: the dark crescent is not a shadow. It's a structure. It's not casting a shadow but, rather, it sits to the left of the scarred area!

Image

Now I'll add a desk lamp and light it to approximate the Tantive scene. Notice the crescent and the scar are appearing. You see both dark and lighter regions. The lighter region is only lighter because it's surface is catching the overhead light.

NOW....

Let me reduce the lighting on the left so that you're seeing PRIMARILY above-head lighting:

Image

TA-DAA!! Look familar? :thumbsup

Not to sound cocky, but when GINO plays the "Jealousy" card, that's just a distracting tactic. This level of detail is something TM owners enjoy, so there's nothing to be jealous of towards the eFX.

It's a level of detail GINO simply does not have, does not know about, and will now quickly denounce as a forgery because, well, of "Jealousy".


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:06 am 
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The pic everyone has been waiting for. The TM with the broken tusks AND the C scar:

Image


Ha. Beat that bitches.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:17 am 
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Karo wrote:
The pic everyone has been waiting for. The TM with the broken tusks AND the C scar:

Ha. Beat that bitches.


Maybe he would have been more amicable to the idea if it were called a G-Scar. :lol


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:30 am 
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that made me laugh out loud!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:51 am 
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Nonono... "C" rhymes with "G". :whip2


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:27 am 
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for the first time ever, I fully understand G-spot. I won't go trying to locate that anymore!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:30 am 
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Location: Pennsylvania
Very nice work Mac. :thumbsup


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:40 am 
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I could have sworn this was supposed to be a cordial thread. But I keep seeing bashing of other folks and name calling. I still don't side with anyone but it's quite clear why most folks on the RPF won't sign up here for this thread.

I keep asking for the original of the pic Karo posted because I thought it was a non TM owner that photoshopped it to remove the scar. To throw up the same pic here so antagonistically I just don't understand.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:01 am 
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encased wrote:
I keep asking for the original of the pic Karo posted because I thought it was a non TM owner that photoshopped it to remove the scar. To throw up the same pic here so antagonistically I just don't understand.

The owner never released it. I assumed it was the helmet as-is and not photoshopped, with just the resin filler obscuring details - filler that Jesper was able to easily remove without scratching or sanding anything, just peeling it off.

I don't have it. I assume only TM has it and it's up to him whether he wants to post it as it is his property.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:09 am 
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Well which is it? Some say it's before the resin was removed and others claim it's after all the clean up. That's the whole reason I would like to see the original pics from that thread that were removed.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:18 am 
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encased wrote:
Well which is it? Some say it's before the resin was removed and others claim it's after all the clean up. That's the whole reason I would like to see the original pics from that thread that were removed.

Those who says it's after all the clean-up are those who gain by putting this helmet down in the eyes of everyone else.
Think about it.

Vadermania owns the original and it his choice whether the un-photoshopped pictures of the original are released. But even then, that won't be enough. We were asked to post up or shut up, we did... and what did that accomplish? There were stipulations for the cast owners when acquiring this mask, so we can't just show everything just because people demand it. I'd rather honor that agreement and be ridiculed by some than breaking a promise.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:32 am 
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Well that goes both ways as there's something to gain according to some folks whether they are before or after. It just matters which side you're on.

But stating "you can't have that info because you're not one of the select few to own one and you're never going to get one of these" doesn't really work when trying to discount another's claim. If the photos were posted before why pull them when it's your main argument?

I'm about info, not picking sides. This kind of tactic doesn't fly in politics either and just makes it look like you;re hiding something. If you don't want info about your helmet casting out there don't tell anybody and keep it all to yourself. Otherwise it's 5 year old crap of "nah, nah, nah look what I got but I'm not gonna let you see".

Kind of off putting wouldn't you say.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:26 am 
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I follow you completely, but we are still under stipulations we agreed to when purchasing this helmet. I'll rather honor that and be ridiculed than breaking a promise.

If you witnessed the eFX thread. It was the same BS happening when the TM was revealed; just another time, other people. That's how it always is. Like rabid dogs around a bone. The decision made then was to not ever show big pictures of the raw castings or clear pictures of certain details and if posting large pictures, certain details had to be removed and the picture approved. This all sounds worse than it is, but the climate was different then... nothing like the TM had ever been shown before (except the DJ... and that got a heavy beating too when that was first shown)... and we've just stuck to that agreement ever since.

Take it for what you will.


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 Post subject: Re: The TM ANH facemask and the C-scar.
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 7:03 am 
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Also, with the photo being used to bash the TM, one assumes all resin was removed, and/or that resin had been applied uniformly or at uniform thickness - none of which is the case.

In that photo, you can still see excess resin here and there... and thus for people to make such authoritative statements about what the TM mask has or doesn't have at this particular stage of Jesper's process is amusing at best.


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