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 Post subject: The sad state of authentic Vader helmet castings.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:30 pm 
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This is not directed at any individual.
I see helmets here being claimed to be things that they aren't and people swallowing the fantasy hook line and sinker. I do realize and believe that it is not intentionally done. More of a case of wishful thinking about an item's pedigree, provenance, lineage, etc.. Especially when they have a financial or emotional investment in a piece.

The ugly truth that these owner's don't want to face is that any helmet taken out of an authentic mold or a helmet recast from another helmet taken from authentic mold COULD be indistinguishable from an unfinished production original. Even if the helmet was made a few years ago, it could easily be made so that you could not tell the difference.
"This one is .004" smaller so it must be further down in lineage."
Oh please make it stop. Do you realize how ridiculous that is? You can argue helmets like the TM, and Thomas' helmets all day, when in reality there is no definitive proof that they are what you HOPE they are. It troubles me greatly to see these kinds of bold claims unquestioned into fact. You think you know, you really want to believe you know, but you really truly have no idea and in the end wishful thinking becomes your reality. Then you go posting that reality as facts when you are really just hoping, and people get seriously misinformed.

The only thing that prevents authentic vader castings from being passed off (AND PROVEN) as original screen used or production pieces are their inability to duplicate all the finishing touches (the work done to finish a helmet ie lenses, grill, foam, straps, attachment mechs, paint method, etc..) That is why I am so reluctant to just make insider info public knowledge. Not with the way things are now, especially here. Maybe one day when all the BS goes away.

Just wanted to share my thoughts based on recent times.


Last edited by GINO on Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:03 pm
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Location: Canaduh!
Interesting thoughts...

I'm just gonna settle back and watch the sparks fly on this thread...should be entertaining at the very least...


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 Post subject: Re: The sad state of authentic Vader helmet castings.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:26 am
Posts: 1239
GINO wrote:
I see helmets here being claimed to be things that they aren't and people swallowing the fantasy hook line and sinker. I do realize and believe that it is not intentionally done. More of a case of wishful thinking about an item's pedigree, provenance, lineage, etc.. Especially when they have a financial or emotional investment in a piece.


I feel the same with regards to your claims about your props.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:53 pm 
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I've never said any of my vader props were original production items made at the time of filming.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:05 pm 
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GINO wrote:
I've never said any of my vader props were original production items made at the time of filming.


Yes, I know they aren't. I never said you did.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:09 pm 
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Then you can't really say you feel the same way about me then can you?
You can, but it wouldn't make any sense.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:26 pm 
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GINO wrote:
Then you can't really say you feel the same way about me then can you?
You can, but it wouldn't make any sense.


Sure it does. It's very simple. Your ANH is listed on Jez's site as a one off. As far as I know, you've never claimed publically that it is. Of course you haven't told Jez to correct that. NowI'm not saying that you are stating it is a production piece, but I certainly question it's provenance as being a one off. Is that easier for you to undertand?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
Have a nice day!


Last edited by CSMacLaren on Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:41 pm
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Location: The Netherlands
Mac, please remove that!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:56 am
Posts: 222
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Darth Karo wrote:
GINO wrote:
Then you can't really say you feel the same way about me then can you?
You can, but it wouldn't make any sense.


Sure it does. It's very simple. Your ANH is listed on Jez's site as a one off. As far as I know, you've never claimed publically that it is. Of course you haven't told Jez to correct that. NowI'm not saying that you are stating it is a production piece, but I certainly question it's provenance as being a one off. Is that easier for you to undertand?


I thought "one off" refers to the fact that only one was made?

Doug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:35 pm 
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Location: Anchorage, Alaska
CSMacLaren wrote:
Image


Mac, I'm going to steal that pic! LOL!

>edit< I removed the "g" at the end in case folks are curious.

Doug


Last edited by wannab on Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:36 pm 
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StarWars Collector wrote:
Mac, please remove that!


Done, but WannaB beat me to it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:37 pm 
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It's description is the best I could do given the criteria and not revealing the source.
Regardless, I think you enter into a whole new world when you claim original made during the production. That's what we're talking about here.
Ask any die hard screen used prop collector and they'll tell you the same.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:38 pm 
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StarWars Collector wrote:
Mac, please remove that!


Doug, same goes for you!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:56 pm 
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GINO wrote:
It's description is the best I could do given the criteria and not revealing the source.
Regardless, I think you enter into a whole new world when you claim original made during the production. That's what we're talking about here.
Ask any die hard screen used prop collector and they'll tell you the same.


Your thread reads much more than just original made production pieces.

I won't direct this comment at you specifically because I mean it in a general way. The disadvantage that pieces like the TM, TD and the new SL cast have is that EVERYONE knows where they came from: EBAY. In some folks eyes that loses credibility unjustly. However, if they had been acquired behind the scenes and no one knew about it, they could have claimed whatever they wanted and you could either believe them or not. The veil of secrecy doesn't add to the authenticity of a prop nor does the knowledge of it's acquisition take away from it, but to try and bring discredit to a prop just because you do know where it came from is just being ignorant and unfair.

Do you have any idea how much research Tom or Thomas has put into their helmets? I can speak for Tom and say that he's still researching it and has accumulated a vast amount of information on it and he's still NOT satisfied. He's not reckless with any wild theories or misinformation.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Guys and girls, start thinking outside the box.

I'm done here as it will lead nowhere. Have fun.


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