It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:54 pm

All times are UTC


THE PROP DEN is primarily a Darth Vader Prop Discussion Board, but we also deal with other Star Wars Props as well as Prop Replicas from other movies. If you do not yet have an account, set one up, sign in and jump into the Vader Prop Discussions!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Enter your Message here
 Post subject: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:21 am
Posts: 730
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
In all the furor over the C-scar one subject that I feel was not adequately explored is the "other cheek", if you will, of the efx Master. I'm intrigued by the way Gino painted the lower portion of the right cheek, or whatever we want to call that part of the helmet, gunmetal gray and left the "whisker" black:

Image

My knee-jerk reaction of course was/is that it is wrong but to play devil's advocate what if it's correct? I've been going over everything that I have and to date I've only seen one scenario that even suggests painting both faces of Vader's right cheek is correct and that is in the 2004 DVD documentary:

Image

Thing is, if you watch the few seconds that the screen cap is taken from you can see the color of the lower portion of the cheek appear to go from black to gray so even that isn't solid. Interesting also to note how the chest armor appears all gray in the screen cap as well. My working theory is that the helmet was obviously re-touched constantly throughout principle photography (which resulted in the conditions that made the c-scar possible) so maybe they painted the cheek that way for one or two shots then changed it back--if it was ever painted that way at all.

There are what appear to be brush strokes on that portion of the cheek in both the LFL/RB castings and TM castings but that doesn't mean that the brush ever had gunmetal gray paint in it. The overwhelming majority of picture information shows that bit is black but definitive pictures showing that part of the helmet to be black are nearly all post-production. Lighting plays wonderful tricks with the helmet and the combination of colors so it's no wonder that it is confusing.

Anybody have a smoking gun or nail to pound into the coffin either way?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:16 pm
Posts: 357
Location: London, UK
dcarty wrote:
Thing is, if you watch the few seconds that the screen cap is taken from you can see the color of the lower portion of the cheek appear to go from black to gray so even that isn't solid. Interesting also to note how the chest armor appears all gray in the screen cap as well.



Don't discount the fact that sensitometry values and post processing could have affected this. Some film stock latitude (especially CNR - used through most of late 70's) has a particular latitude. Also, the scanning to video could have suffered.
The Rank Cinitel telecine machines were notoriously variable in their colour reproduction.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:50 pm
Posts: 392
I have a few references that are 'questionable' in that area... suggesting gunmetal; but more refs that strongly support that it is black, NOT gunmetal. My vote: BLACK.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:33 pm
Posts: 490
Are we talking about the crease between the cheek front and side of the mouth?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:50 pm
Posts: 392
No, the actual side of the mouth triangle... I think?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:38 am
Posts: 265
Zuka Zamamee wrote:
No, the actual side of the mouth triangle... I think?


I think it's dark gunmetal or a black lighter than the other black .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:50 pm
Posts: 392
Well, yes there are spots all over the mask that actually vary... mixed a bit, but I think it is 'supposed' to be black in that area rather than the highlight gunmetal color...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:33 pm
Posts: 490
I vote for a mixed color there as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 5:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 554
Location: Hampton Wick UK
I've always finished mine black on that side and gun metal the other....

_________________
http://starwarshelmets.com/CfO_Armor_Helmet.htm
Image
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CfO-Cast ... 3121172779


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 10:34 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
Posts: 10908
Location: Denmark
I would say, like the gunmetal weathering on the right cheek, the left mouth wall is just that... light weathering. You can see the same exact brush stroke weathering on the inside mouth walls, possibly even the teeth and the right tusk tube. Seeing as the left rear cheek area also seems darker in part than the rest of the gunmetal, perhaps that indeed IS black and only weathered lightly with gunmetal, picking up the light in certain angles, making the repaint look and the ESB style paint job the ACCURATE paint scheme, but only obscured by the additional weathering on the ANH. Otherwise, when repainting the helmet, why add that black rear left cheek area, if it was gunmetal to begin with? Would also explain the tape line seen in that area suggesting the masking when applying the initial grey, while keeping it off the black.

Just a theory.

It could also be as I've suggested previously, that they painted too much gunmetal and then brushed some areas black again, with the paint never really covering the gunmetal. The only true black spray painted surface left intact is the upper cheek area under the left eye. The rest doesn't have the glossy black look to it.

Or... the eFX paint job could be correct. I'm just not seeing it, but hey, I could be wrong.

_________________
Check us out at Facebook!
http://www.facebook.com/ThePropDen


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 4:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:21 am
Posts: 730
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
I watched 1080i transfer of Star Wars again last night on the projector and it certainly seemed like the coloring on the right mouth wall of the helmet was subtly different. It was most evident to me in just a few brief shots when Vader is in his TIE Fighter and during the strangling of Capt Antilles.

I won't go so far as to say anything other than that I was left with the "impression" that it looked different. After all, the light is bouncing every which way off the angles of that helmet. I do find that I'm really liking the idea that the right mouth wall was gunmetal at some point then re-painted black but we'll just have to see if anything more concrete turns up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 5:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:12 am
Posts: 3115
Ya I was curious about this too before, and these images together show that it is a slightly darker shade of gunmetal, but not black.

Image

I think the whisker might be the same shade, or at least it is gunmetal, not black as shown below best in the TIE cockpit sequences.

Image

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 11:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:50 pm
Posts: 392
I know it's questionable, and even in some instances I can see maybe some brush-strokes... but it is pretty dark... NOT even close to the same shade as on the front of the left cheek...


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:12 am
Posts: 3115
I don't know, look at the whisker on the right side, you can see when light hits it directly that it is not black. Based on the overhanging angle of that whisker, it will invariably be in more shadow than adjacent sections. That's why the TIE cockpit images are so telling. They are from a low angle so the light hits the whiskers directly. Plus the lighting was darker in the TIE so there are no harsh surface reflections like you get with other onset lighting. With a pure reflection it isn't possible to tell if it is black or gunmetal, but with diffuse lighting like on the TIE, it is. :whip2

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:10 am
Posts: 368
Were there any paint touch ups done before the Tie scenes were filmed?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Blue Moon by Trent © 2007
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Hosted by Freeforum.ca, get your free forum now! TOS | Support Forums | Report a violation
MultiForums powered by echoPHP phpBB MultiForums