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 Post subject: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:40 pm 
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Look at the images below, One from the original film, the next from The Empire strikes Back, and the next from Return of the Jedi. The focus is around the eyes, the sockets the lenses and the brows. What do you beleive is the difference? What did they do to make them appear different?
Image
Image
Image


Last edited by Darth Obsession on Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:47 pm 
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I'm not seeing any pics.....


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:54 pm 
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Took quick, I was still editing - sorry


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:21 pm 
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ANH lenses are dark amber, the ESB and ROTJ are a smoke tint. The eyes around the edges are a bit smoother for ESB (mainly how they are finished) and cleaned up/sanded down a bit by the time of ROTJ.


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Ok, Interesting....Anybody else care to take a shot at it? I am trying to find out what everyone thinks. How did they make the eyes look so different ?


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:21 pm 
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Consider this:
This is a picture of my helmet. It is an SPFX V1 (the first one I ordered, that Phil actually sent).
Image
I painted it the standard way, and since I had realized by this time (thanks to still pause and a blue-ray player) that the ANH mask (faceplate)at least, is hand painted, I used a brush and painted the highlighted areas with a Charcoal Grey, Simi-Metalic (Dupli-color GM 318).
It looked pretty accurate to me, but I noticed that I could see the eye brows a lot more than I could in the actual film and most of the 'during production' images I had collected. One night it was sitting on the work bench, I had been taking pictures of it earlier, and I was at my computer working on something when I just happened to look over at it and notice that under the regular room light and with the dome tilted up a bit, it looked just like my favorite image of vader from ROTJ:
Image
so I took the picture above and used a program to lower the light, the burgandy color is just due to the use of standard light bulb, but I thought it looked cool. But it made me realize something about the Vader eye brows. But, I don't accept anything at face value. I follow the scientific method. Find proof or dis-prove it. More to come.....


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:33 pm 
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Well, for one thing, the helmet sits lower in ANH, shading the eyes more. I also think the paint has something to do with it. Overall, I believe it is how the shape of the eye is perceived, less wide-eyes in ANH, and more surprised in the later films.


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:12 pm 
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Dome sits predominantly lower in ANH, slight bit raised in ESB just barely above the eyebrows, but the RotJ sits a lot higher showing parts of the brow as well.

Also... the only helmet that differs in socket depth is the ESB. RotJ is similar in depth to ANH, but most ESB's have deeper sockets.


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:16 pm 
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Now, Consider this.
By this time, I had found plenty of pictures, like this:
ImageImage
And I can tell you that the eyebrows on my SPFX V1 look just like these (and yes, these images are of the same helmet.) And I painted them the same way:
Image
This being one of the pics I took ealier in the day. The only difference was the lighting and angle of the lighting, as the second image of my helmet was taken with a movable florecent light, posistioned out in front of the helmet.
The Brow is there, there just isn't enough light to see it, but the cammera did. I came across this feature in my photo enhance program: 'Glowing Edges'. All you do is click the icon and the computer does the rest. I tried it and thought, that's kinda cool. Now compare the orinal pic of my helmet with the 'glowing edes' picture, you can't see the brows but the camera and the computer still does:
Image
Image
More to come....


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:38 am 
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The Nose Bridge is more 'scooped out' in the earlier helmets. You can follow
a clear arc round from the lens line themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:41 pm 
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I believe that for ESB a helmet and mask casting was made from a mould produced from the ANH original, then cleaned up by the art department, who then made a new mould from this 'pattern' to produce all the helmets needed for Empire. This would explain most of the differences between the props in the first two films, then some may have been restored and cleaned up further for ROTJ, (with a new mould made for extra copies) all of which results in even more smoothening out.

As to the eye colour, I think the ESB lenses were pale brown. You can see this in the photo of the PA Stunt taken from the rear looking through the eyes.. plus you get a similar colour (but not so clear) from the on-set shot of the ESB reveal as it's being lowered on Darth's head. The ROTJ lenses seem to be pale yellowy-bronze with a darkening layer of 'something' behind them, which you can sometimes make out in photos from exhibitions.

My 2p anyway :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:29 pm 
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gonk27 wrote:
The ROTJ lenses seem to be pale yellowy-bronze with a darkening layer of 'something' behind them, which you can sometimes make out in photos from exhibitions.


Yes, but that gauze is something that appears only on exhibitions. To hide unsightly mannequin's no doubt.
It would be almost impossible to suit up and try and walk, let alone act and fight with thick acrylic and a
gauze imparing your sight.

I've always wondered if it was put into the reveal helmet (on set) so you couldn't see Sebastian
Shaw until the last moment.


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:41 pm 
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I reckon the mesh behind the Reveal's eyes was put in as something for those old camera lens assemblies to sit on and look more 'technical' although it never actually got seen, but yeah you could be right.


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:50 am 
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Lets, narrow this down a bit. What does everyone think is going on with the eyebrows?
You can't see them on the ANH. And yes, in a lot of shots the dome is lower, but there are lots of shots where the dome is up, and you still can't see them. Why not?
ImageImage
Image

But, even in the darkest shots from ESB, there they are. You can still see them:

ImageImage

Even in ROTJ. They look slimmer, sleeker than in ESB, but you can still see them.

ImageImage

Why can't you see them in ANH, but you can in ESB and ROTJ, even in low light?


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 Post subject: Re: The Darth Vader Eyes Challenge.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:39 am 
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I always pondered that myself until I actually started messin' around with shootin' the face up yrs back.
I noticed some silvers or gunmetals accentuate or lessen the degree on whether the eyebrows show up or not in low light.
Also depends on how close or how far up the masking on the inner black sockets are protruding into the eyebrow. Or vice-versa with the silver.

I believe the ANH being brushed on and non metalic/no clearcoat effectivey diminished reflected light to the brows causing the blackout. ESB finished up in a high luster paint showcased the brows in almost every other scene. Kinda leads me to believe Kirshner played a role into whether or not the total eyes should be visable. In practically every Vader shot concerning ESB, the camera angle and light sources were angled in such a way to reveal the beauty in exposing Vaders eyes.


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