It is currently Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:30 am

All times are UTC


THE PROP DEN is primarily a Darth Vader Prop Discussion Board, but we also deal with other Star Wars Props as well as Prop Replicas from other movies. If you do not yet have an account, set one up, sign in and jump into the Vader Prop Discussions!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Enter your Message here
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:26 am 
Random avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:49 am
Posts: 30
ANH-unpainted unless something really revolutionary appears to counter.
ESB premiere-Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:47 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
Posts: 10566
Location: Denmark
troopermaster wrote:
I used to think the trooper armour was painted but now I am now so sure. The ones in the archives look like could have been painted. But, that does't mean they were all painted originally. The ones in the archives have probably been used several times for one thing or another, so could quite easily have been resprayed to bring them 'back to life'.
Image
Image
Image
Image

That doesn't look like scraped off paint to me, but rather damaged and yellowed plastic after having been subjected to the rigors of filming and later storage. Residue from gaffer tape will leave stains over time, build-up of dust and grime. Glue runs and glue that wasn't wiped off properly will also leave marks on the plastic, even to the point of warping it, damaging it, discoloring it.

I'm seeing what I would expect from heavily used plastic armor.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:06 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 548
Location: Hampton Wick UK
From what I know the ABS was okayed by LFL as it was ordered after the first run of HDPE helmets were pulled.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:50 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 1256
Location: Germany
Mhh...
You all know that there was two types of suits?
One type( the early ones) made by Elstree and the others made by Shepperton.
Well, may they used different kinds of ABS in color that one type of them got painted.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:04 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 548
Location: Hampton Wick UK
This news to me? I always thought the vac machines in Elstree had broken down before the job of forming suits had started? That's why AA was asked to do them. AA made 56 and I thought that was all that was used? Also if plastic had already been ordered why did AA have to make the first helmets out of HDPE and then have to order White ABS to make the suits? If forming had already started then surely LFL would have had the ABS at Elstree already?
Im not saying they hadn't already formed suits but it sounds unlikely.
I might well be wrong and stand corrected. But I have never seen evidence to suggest otherwise. Please enlighten me. I'm all up for knowing more.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:25 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 1256
Location: Germany
Quote from Jez site:
Initially, the Stormtrooper Armor was due to be fabricated in-house at Elstree (most probably in fiberglass), although the Elstree technicians had been having problems with their vac-forming machine so this process was out-sourced to SDS. Due to its boat-making business, Shepperton Design Studio’s was fortunate in that it had a HUGE vac-forming table, which was over 4 meters long. This was perfect for the trooper armor as it allowed a complete set of armor to be made from a single pull – a great time saver when there's 56 sets to make!


So as i understand,there were some suits made from Elstree before the machine stops there work.
Well also we should think about the fact that we see on screen in the stunt shots very bendy and flexi armors.
Well why than , if they all had a high rubber content in those suits from Shepperton ,we see some other wich have cracks splits and gaffer tape.
Cause of this fact i think now they had two differnet types of ABS in use and we also see the early type from Elstree on screen ,too.
And i not belive that two differnet kind of ABS have the same color.
That could be a reason why some may got painted.

Also why Shepperton use HPDE for the helmets if he got the flexi ABS from LFL??
He could use the ABS also for all 56 helmets but he doesn't cause he use the HDPE for his boats also and had this in stock.

Well why he don't use ABS for his boats, cause HDPE has a high density,swims on water, don't suck water as some other kinds of plastic can do and also it's very immune against acid and chemicals.So perfect for boats but cause of his oily surface absolute nothing for painting.

A point which i think also speaks again the fact that he have done all suits.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:07 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 548
Location: Hampton Wick UK
SDS didn't use the HDPE for boats and LFL had not ordered the ABS before the helmets were formed. SDS made garden ponds out of the khaki HDPE not boats.
AA told me that he had to rush the helmets through and when LFL were satisfied that helmets were good enough for the job the ABS was then ordered. The ABS was from UniRoyal in Acton that made the car tyres so that's why it had a high rubber content. ABS in general is quite flexy I have formed with many types of ABS. Even the flexy ABS will only have a certain amount of tolerance before splitting.

I have spoken to AA on this matter and he said to me, and believe what you will. But ABS was a relatively new kind of plastic in 1976 and not many people were forming with it especially Film workshops. Elstree were only looking at making Fiberglass suits. So to his knowledge he was the only person to have made ABS armour that was used on set for the first film.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:44 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:29 pm
Posts: 188
Location: UK
There were several suits made at Elstree according to Brian Muir. I have spoken to Brian about this since handling Simons suit and he said that he bumped into someone recently who worked at Elstree and he commented about how the suits from AA felt different to ones he made/saw.

Without going into too much detail, I think everything you know about the materials trooper armour and helmets are made from is wrong. Listen to AA if you want. I have handled the original stuff and I was shocked.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:11 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 1256
Location: Germany
sskunky wrote:
SDS didn't use the HDPE for boats and LFL had not ordered the ABS before the helmets were formed. SDS made garden ponds out of the khaki HDPE not boats.

Yes he did garden ponds as he write it at his site.
During late February 1976, Andrew Ainsworth beavered away making the first Stormtrooper helmets out of stone coloured HDPE (High Density Polyethylene)sheet material that he'd previously used to make garden ponds.

But he also did Kayaks, and Kayaks are a kind of boats
http://originalstormtrooper.com/downloa ... Part-2.pdf
Ok there is not written which material he used for them.But he made boats,too.:toothy

But as the most of that what Shepperton said, the most of it is not true.
The HDPE was not stone collored it was khaki green.For example.
I know it's not a big difference but in many things Shepperton told big shit in past , so sorry if i not realy can believe what this guy say.
He also told that he made the moulds himself and that he also make his helmets and armors today from exact this orginal moulds from back 1976.
We all know that this can not be true.

Don't missunderstand me please i not want to bashing you, i only want to discuss a little bit. :salut


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 548
Location: Hampton Wick UK
I cannot vouch for any of what Andrew says but I find it hard to believe that everything he says is a lie. OK we all know that he didn't sculpt the moulds from scratch but in a 20 million pound law suit I may say whatever I could if I think I could get away with it. Apparently there are lots of notes in John Mollo's diary that have not been made public for reasons only known to LFL. But this discussion is not about that.


On a different note I hadn't seen that Pdf before. Very interesting and Andrew has certainly had his fair share of projects over the years! Badminton clothing and polyester puffa jackets! :lol

I'm not sure the kayaks were made of HDPE as that probably would be to flexible.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:26 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:22 am
Posts: 548
Location: Hampton Wick UK
troopermaster wrote:
I think everything you know about the materials trooper armour and helmets are made from is wrong.



Paul, I think that's a rather bold statement. I don't think everything I know is wrong.

Are you telling me that the HDPE helmets were not HDPE and the ABS armour was not ABS?

Do you really get off on belittling me in public? I'm not sure what I have ever done to you to deserve all this bashing you give me. I'm all up for education but to just throw statements at me like that is not called for. Especially as you have shown nothing to back them up other than say you can't say too much? What are we supposed to do just accept what you say is gospel.

I am an enthusiast just like yourself. But lording it up does nothing to educate me or anyone else.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:29 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:29 pm
Posts: 188
Location: UK
I didn't realise I was directing my comments at you?

What I am saying is that what everyone assumed (or was told) about the materials used on the original Stormtrooper helmets and armour is wrong or incorrect. I cannot back it up with photos as it would do nothing to prove my point. What you think something looks like in a photo is totally different when you hold it in your hands.

I read things that certain people say about original pieces as though they have held them and are familiar with them. But the truth of the matter is they only know what they have been told or believe what they think they are saying is right.

I have always questioned things and don't always go with the grain. Now I have had the opportunity to handle a real helmet and full set of armour, some of my theories have been confirmed and some shot down. One thing is for sure, I learned things about the materials used that goes against what everyone thinks (at least on this particular costume). I cannot vouch for every single piece made, but I would say the majority of the costumes were all the same.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 1256
Location: Germany
troopermaster wrote:
I didn't realise I was directing my comments at you?

I read things that certain people say about original pieces as though they have held them and are familiar with them. But the truth of the matter is they only know what they have been told or believe what they think they are saying is right.


Thanks Paul.
That's excat this , what i wanted to point out.
Think about new possibilities and not stand on that point, it got told so, it will be ever told so.
Sometimes it's better to scrutinize all.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:36 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:16 am
Posts: 237
Location: Krefeld, Germany
troopermaster wrote:
Now I have had the opportunity to handle a real helmet and full set of armour, some of my theories have been confirmed and some shot down. One thing is for sure, I learned things about the materials used that goes against what everyone thinks (at least on this particular costume). I cannot vouch for every single piece made, but I would say the majority of the costumes were all the same.


and what exactly did you learn?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Stormtrooper armor ABS or Painted?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:06 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:14 am
Posts: 74
Location: Australia
Are the helmets not HDPE or armor ABS. I find it hard to beleive otherwise. I mean thickness people use might be wrong but the materials are right aren't they. Color of the HDPE I can understand being wrong as I've had a few helmets made of that and they also look very different in person compared to how they come out in photos. Or even the finish of the ABS armor could be off too.I dunno. I'm now interested to hear more as I'm in no way saying your wrong and hope we can learn from this.

Ben


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Blue Moon by Trent © 2007
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Hosted by Freeforum.ca, get your free forum now! TOS | Support Forums | Report a violation
buy web visitors
MultiForums powered by echoPHP phpBB MultiForums