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 Post subject: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:53 pm 
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Location: Wisconsin, USA
Hello everyone,

I recently aquired a SgtFang faceplate from a member over on the RPF. I made the purchase being fully aware of the many limitations that are present in this particular faceplate, but it was priced so low that I could not resist taking it on as a modification project. I enjoy the modification process just as much as owning the prop, and would like to see if I can make this helmet more accurate.

I would like to start by attempting to identify some of the key changes that need to be made, which is where I need some help making decisions.

Here's what I have noticed so far:

1. Eyebrows are somewhat soft.
2. Amount of flare in the neck is not to my liking.
3. Vader's left side upper tusk tube seems to be too bowed.
4. (this one I am not sure about) Vader's left side cheek seems to small, or somehow "sunken" into the mask.
5. Center ridge between eyebrows looks like it needs to be built up.

I have attached some pictures. I just got the faceplate and have removed the eyes and chin vent. I have not touched the teeth/mouth vent area yet because I have'nt decided on how to approach that area. I am still working on filing the eye sockets and chin vent to smooth out the rough edges.

So, what has to be done to make this more accurate? Feel free to comment on the aspects that I have mentioned above and to point out other details that can be altered/improved. I realize that there are many limitations to this mask but I believe with some dedication on my part and some help it can be turned into a decent looking prop.


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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:50 am 
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Hey maestro,
i recently finished a Sgt.Fang face with a modded Rubies supreme dome. I wouldn't spend too much time and effort trying to accurise the mask, all i did was reshape the eyebrows and sharpen the detail a bit. The mask appears to be a little undersized compared with others, but i don't really notice too much difference between between my Fang and my DP Dlx. My main gripe was the Fang dome, which, to my eyes, was seriously undersized.
Anyhoo, here's a pic of mine.
Good luck with yours.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:31 pm 
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Thanks for your input! I read the conversation covering your project carefully. So, you found that the fang and DP DLX faceplates are very similar in size? That is surprising to me.

My Fang mask did not include a dome, so I have a different dome on the way. This dome actually should be similar in size to a DP DLX. Think the two will look proportionate to each other? I will have to develop some type of mounting system, as neither piece includes one.


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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:47 pm 
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There are several threads on the forum describing the alterations done to the GH/Jeff style helmets that the SgtFang relates to. Check those out and you'll see which parts were altered and how they should look and simply try to reverse engineer it back to more accurate shape. I can tell you now that you won't get it perfect, so don't set that as a goal, but you can manipulate the mask, since it's resin, and use bondo to build up areas that were sanded and I reckon you'll be able to get it 80-90% back to more accurate shape. The rest is just anal retentive that only the whackos like me will attempt and fail miserably, as it simply isn't necessary and is a lot of unecessary fiddling with minor details. Stick to the big details and fix those and you'll have a helmet to be proud of.

I can help with pointing out the major areas to fix... I'll try to do that tonight, unless you find all your answers during searches. It's all there... I know... it's just a pain to find it... but start in the fanmades section. :thumbsup

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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:56 pm 
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Thanks for your interest, TMG. I look forward to receiving your advice and I will be sure to read through the past threads in the meantime.


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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:27 pm 
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What you are seeing with the differences in the cheeks are sorta accurate to the original shape. It is asymmetrical and wonky when viewed from different angles. But of course... since I've not really studied a Fang all that much, and not really sure how it structurally differs from the more accurate helmets, I'll just concentrate on the details that are easy to spot.

Go check out the VP thread for excellent reference to use for your modification project. It should be in the authentic casts section under fanmades. It's a long thread, so just browse through it and enjoy the pictures. Some of the discussion is a little outdated and of course contains the usual arguments... but... the pictures are awesome. You can also find a gallery of various authentic helmets in that section and you can find pictures there, if you don't want to browse through too many threads.

The right outer mouth wall looks caved in on the Fang and should be built up a bit, so it is more straight, The source master was sanded down in that area, so could use a filling, to make it back to original. It was also heated and pushed into shape, but I don't think you need to mess too much with that.

The eyebrows, as you mentioned need some work, as well as the sockets. Again, look at the pictures of more accurate casts to see what needs to be done. What you need to do is make the inner socket edge more almond in shape rather than round.

What dome did you acquire for this face mask?

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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:48 pm 
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I just got the dome in the mail yesterday. It's from the natty reveal kit that Darth Fetty recently worked on. I am very happy with it. It has some thick, rough filler spread around the sides which I have begun to sand down. I will need to do quite a bit more sanding, and also fill in a small dent in the forhead area.

Initially, I was concerned that the slightly small fang face would not be in proportion with the natty dome. However, they seem to match up with proportions that are tolerable.

I know this is probably a stretch, but I would like to make the fang faceplate look as ROTJ as possible to better match up with the dome. I'd at least like to give it a try, simply because ROTJ is my favorite look and I just can't help it.

The site doesn't want to let me attach pictures right now...but I will post this for the moment and see if I can get some pictures of the dome up soon.


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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:09 pm 
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Ok, let's see if this works. I tried using photobucket instead of just attaching pictures.

Image

Before sanding:
Image

After initial rough sanding:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:16 pm 
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Just to see what it would look like, I positioned the dome and faceplate together with no mounting system whatsoever. The dome position/angle is not correct but I just wanted to get a first glimpse at what these two look like together.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:39 am 
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Not a bad dome!
The one glaring mistake in the Fang is that the rear of the mask is just way too narrow...it should be much more spread out. try it on and you'll see what i mean. TBH i didn't bother fixing this as it looks ok when painted and concealed by the dome.

TMG is right about the right outer mouth wall...it IS sunken, but a bit of filler sorts it out fine!

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:46 am 
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Bigger chin vent and you basically have the basic RotJ look. There should be threads on here showing the RotJ chin vent size in relation to the tusks and upper mouth, to get the proper proportions.

Good luck. However, I must admit that the Fang looks small in that dome.

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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Thanks to both of you for your responses, I appreciate it!

I was thinking the exact same thing about the back of the face being too pulled together. I may consider widening it somehow.

So, here's the question I face. I really like this dome. NHM pointed out that the Fang looks small in the dome. It looks small to me too, and I knew I would be risking that. My question is: is the Fang mask just unacceptably small for this dome, or is it close enough to justify spending time fixing it up?

After seeing what clancampbell was able to do, I wouldn't mind giving it a shot, but I would like to hear the opinions of members with more experience than me!


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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:06 pm 
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The mask may just LOOK too small for the dome. You won't be able to tell the extent of any size discrepancies until you mount both properly.
For this purpose you could use plasicine or blu-tak...after all, it's only temporary!

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:35 pm 
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If you manage to widen the sides of the face, then it may end up looking better. But the Fang IS undersized compared to accurate sized helmets, which the Don Post is a part of - I believe the Natty15 is from a Don Post source, iirc.

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 Post subject: Re: SgtFang Faceplate: Analysis and WIP
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:28 pm 
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I'd say go for it..I just got a Fang lid in the other day and im guna go ahead and make it ESB just for an extra helmet..they look pretty good fixed up rite..

Did you get your lid white like that?
mine came in painted black with the grill and tusks filled with bondo and lenses bondod in..still haven't found out why
but im not complaining :thumbsup


-Steve


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