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 Post subject: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:39 am
Posts: 30
Hi to everyone. Well like the title says I am trying to work on a Sgt. Fang vader lid. I am trying to make it look more ESBish. I know it won't ever be up to the standards of most of the helmets I see on here, and trust me it will eat away at me till I break down one day and upgrade it.

So far I have reworked the eyes and nasal bridge as well as vader's right cheek and snout. I also added a little material to the nose to make it a little wider. I enlarged the lower mouth triangle and took off the widow's peak on the dome. I have done a few other things to it. Please feel free to comment on it and give feedback. I can take the criticism. Thanks for looking.

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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:05 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:07 am 
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Sorry if some of these images are poor. I didn't have time to get the tripod out.

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Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:21 am 
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No one have any critiques or ideas? Maybe everyone is tired of Fang lids?


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:01 am
Posts: 62
Location: New Melle, MO
it may just be me.... but does it seem like the 'teeth' are to narrow? like the open space between them is too large. or is that just a trait of the of the fang? other than that, looks good to me. (although im no expert.....) mabey fill in the sides of the teeth with some sculpty putty, shape and let it cure and sand them down. thats all i see.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
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Location: Denmark
Well... they are sorta hard to critique... 'cause... in one hand you know its limitations and in the other you know that a determined individual can really do some serious work. It all comes down to what you want and how far you want to go. If you just want a nice display piece that "looks" like Vader, then you don't need to do much - just fix the teeth and narrow down the center ridge on the dome - but if you want über accuracy... it requires a lot of work.

For the teeth you should go with 6mm wide teeth and 8mm wide gaps. Rather than work on the teeth cast in the helmet, slowly building up width and a more accurate angle, I think it would be easier to just cut them out and install 6mm square flower rod instead and then blend things in with bondo or magic sculpt.

The dome ridge should be about 1" wide... I'm sure someone knows the exact width.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:39 am
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Thanks for the comments guys. I will work on getting the teeth looking better and narrowing the center dome ridge.

Yeah the Fang definately has its limitations. I want to get it as close to the ESB helmet as reasonable. It will ultimately be on a manequin in my SW room or theatre room since I am not Prowse size and couldn't pull off the costume well enough. However, that doesn't mean that I am not willing to work on it to make it better. I know a lot more about Jango and Boba Fett, so I trust everyone's opinions here since you all know so much more about the subject than I ever could. If you have any suggestions please let me know and I will work on them.

Should I add any length to the dome skirt or just work on the positioning? I do plan on adding fiberglass to the inside of the dome and skirt to strengthen it and give it the right look instead of just being smooth and thin.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:43 pm 
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sorry duplicate


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:04 pm 
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I don't think you should add any on the inside of the dome. Looks just fine as it is.

Are you attempting to build up the width and correct angle with bondo or will you attempt a cosmetic surgery and install new teeth? Deciding on the approach and we can go from there.

If you do the teeth and the center ridge, we can see if more work is needed by then. Concentrate on one part of the fix at a time, otherwise the project will drain you and you'll try to do too many things all at once, making a Frankenstein's monster out of it and stop half-way through. I've seen it before and I've done it myself. Those two things are what's standing out the most as being not quite right.

For the most part, since you say you are not so well-versed with Vader, I would suggest not doing something prior to checking for comments on a possible future mod here first. Would be a shame to do work that isn't needed.

We can certainly help you make a nice idealized Vader if you know and accept the limitations of the helmet and allow them to work for you instead of against you. Going for the über-accuracy with a helmet such as this may be overkill and requires an ass-load of commitment that in the end may not be what you want.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:54 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback. I can accept (for now) the limitations of the helmet. I am sure at some point I will get the upgrade fever and get a better one.

I imagine I will try to just add material to the teeth that are there. I am afraid to cut them out totally, but I guess I need to ask one question. Are the teeth uniform thickness from outside to inside the helmet from top to bottom. I hope that makes sense. These teeth aren't. If they should be then I might lean towards cutting them out and starting over.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:07 am 
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Location: New Melle, MO
i think they are strait, same thickness/width. at least on my SPFX they appear to be. and about 6mm thick. as long as you take your time and make sure your new teeth are square, you should be fine. keep us posted!


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:00 am 
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They are fairly straight. And they are supposed to be as deep as they are wide.

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When you fill, make sure you don't fill a uniform width from top to bottom on both sides of the tooth. For instance... most Jeff/GH/Fyberdyne/Sgt Fang has their teeth tilting from bottom to top from right to left - or more straight - whereas the real ones have the teeth tilting slightly towards the left. So, you may want to add more material to the top on one side and less towards the bottom and the opposite on the other side to build up a different tilt, if you follow me.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
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Location: San Jose, CA
A while back I did a simulation of the distortion effects of the Fiberdyne (which the SgtFang comes from).

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Some things can be addressed by adding material in the right places and sculpting properly. Some things cannot. You have to accept it as it is. I find it interesting that many Fiberdyne descendants were cast without mold jackets. Some were purposely pulled out, either to adapt to the head sizes of owners, or done so with the belief that such was the screen look. Fortunately we know better nowadays.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:29 pm 
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Thanks for the advice on the teeth. I think I will probably just cut them out and start over. They are thinner in depth at the top than the bottom and too narrow. Had it just been one thing I would just add some filler, but I think it will be better to start over.

Thanks for the image of the distortion. I don't think that can be corrected on this thing very well. It definately has its flaws. Let me know if you think any of those areas can be addressed without hacking the thing into a million pieces.

Thanks again to everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Sgt. Fang ESB conversion
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
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Location: San Jose, CA
Honestly, you can have accurized features but yet the whole helmet can look off. I think the Fiberdyne lineage tree had various moments where recasting was done without an outer jacket to protect the mold shape, and there may have been recasts made out of purposely distorted masks (physically manipulated to achieve what they thought was the screen look).

After a while, people won't really care whether teeth lean left or right. They focus on whether or not they enjoy the prop!

I think the key thing is set up - getting better dome-to-mask proportions and then dome positioning - which is what you're doing here, and you've done a good job so far.


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