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 Post subject: Rubies Fiberglass Questions?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:54 am 
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Location: Orlando, FL
I have never seen or handled the Rubies Fiberglass helmet up close, but for those who might have, how bad is it compared to a DP deluxe?

I know it is warped similar to the later prod numbers of the DP but how severe in comparison? Has the dome or mount changed between the 2? Is it a lost cause and no comparison? Thanks!

I know there are much better out there, but I want to get something that has a decent ROTJ look and feel and the DP seems close, and the Rubies is supposed to be from the same DP molds, so I figured I would ask and get some opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: Rubies Fiberglass Questions?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:04 am 
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slasher x wrote:
I have never seen or handled the Rubies Fiberglass helmet up close, but for those who might have, how bad is it compared to a DP deluxe?


... it id the "mother of bad" ... :pale :pale :pale - stay away - only a waste
of money !!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:29 am 
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Aw, come on, JRX. Be nice. :lol

The Rubie's FG LE originally sold for $900 (MSRP, I think). A few months ago, they dropped down to $500-ish. Most recently, one sold for $350-ish.

People say that the original Don Post Deluxe line started to warp towards the higher numbers of the 1,000 series. If there was mold deformation, I'd love to know what the specfic features are.

When I look at photos of people's Rubie's FG LE, the one thing I notice is that the features look off. I'm not sure if it's the paint job, as the paint job is obviously superior on the original Don Post Deluxe.

But I also wonder this: you have these molds that theoretically were used for a run of 1,000 (unles they were only allowed small number of pulls from those molds which they'd have to then in turn make molds of their own, unless prohibited in their license agreement with LFL).

If those very same molds went to Rubie's, then those molds had already had 1,000 masks pulled out of them.

Rubie's FG LE was an edition of 5,000.

Right now Photobucket's down for maintenance, but I'll post some shots of some of the features I see.

In theory, the Rubie's FG LE Number 1/5,000 is not going to look better than the DP Deluxe's 1,000/1,000 -- if any of this is accurate.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:09 am 
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Well... I still think they took a master cast from that mold, reworked it - like DP STD reworked their master cast from the mold - and then made molds off of that master.

We have NOT seen ANY casts from the molds that LFL leased to DP STD or Rubies LT... we have only seen casts from the molds of the reworked master casts.

Same with how they made the DP CA and Rubies Supreme... from a reworked master.

So even though it is the same molds leased to Rubies that went to DP STD... it is not the same molds that was used in the production of those helmets.

At least that's how I see it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:29 pm 
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NHM,

The more I think about it, the more I think you're right. So that brings us to the question: how accurate was the Jeff ROTJ that GINO sold recently? That to me appeared more accurate than the DLX. So if that was a pull from that mold but unmodified like the DLX master, then that would explain both the DLX and the Jeff ROTJ as being dissimilar.

But also consider this: the DLX was mass produced. Back in the day when they say that only a certain number of pulls can be made from a mold before wear and tear make it unusable, it is likely that multiple molds were made from the then DLX master.

If this is the case, then there should not be much difference between #1 and #1,000. I really do not see them pulling 1,000 out of the same mold, do you? If they made 50 molds, then 20 pulls from each, then that would add up to 1,000.

Then to say the early number ones were not distorted and the later ones were would not make any sense. How much mold deterioration could happen within 20 pulls? Further, unless this was very crappy silicone that DPS used, bear in mind that you'd have a plaster casing to reinforce the shape of the silicone mold. There should have been neck flare and right jaw droop on the entire line. #1 would not have been spared of these features if they had already existed in the DLX master!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:34 pm 
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So the Rubie's FG LE is a production run of 5,000.

The following are within the 3 digits. I saw these on eBay. I've not seen anything above 999 yet. Everything seems to be within the 800 range which suggests that Rubie's may not have manufactured or sold all of them yet.

#816
Image

#694
Image

Some 3-digit:
Image

#957
Image

If you see #957, it may be a combination of bad lighting, bad photography and a bad paint job, but the features look like they're drooping. I'm not sure what that's all about.

Now, the promotional shots are all done with single digit ones. These look much nicer.

Single digit:

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b138/ ... silver.jpg

Another single digit (this one looks okay):

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:38 pm 
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First: I can't recall that the Jeff RotJ has ever been reported to be originating from the DP STD. Only the ANH has, iirc. Both helmets were reported originating from Jeff... but he could have got the helmets from different sources - if the Jeff RotJ has been said to come from DP STD, please let me know, so I can correct my stance.

With this... my stance is that the DP DLX and Jeff RotJ has no connection other than being from RotJ source.


Second: I think it is a general misconception that the first DP DLX pulls were fantastic and there was a continual decline in quality up to number 1000. The quality was all over the place regardless of where you put your finger down in the edition number. It is the latter helmets cast from the same molds that got distorted and warped... which is why a 284 can be more warped than a 692 depending on what number it was cast in the mold it was cast from... if you follow me. If 692 was number 1 cast in mold *whatever* and 284 was number 42 in mold whatever... then surely 284 would be more warped than 692.

Also... depending on the type of molds they made... and since it was mass production... it is quite possible that they took out the helmets a bit too soon sometimes... or squeezing at the mold to get the resin out into all the nooks and grannies... or something.

The reason the Rubies helmets seem more similar in shape, etc... from low number to high number may be because they've learned from some of the mistakes - if any were made - done by DP STD regarding the casting procedure... and they've been able to produce a more consistent looking product. Who knows. Only Don Post and Rubies knows these things - we are just speculating... but maybe we could ask them!?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:52 pm 
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I wonder why the dome sits so high off the face? All of them are like that in the pics Mac posted. I dont remember the DP sitting nearly that high.

I wonder what if anything was changed?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:15 pm 
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Here's another thought. In mass production, you just make a bunch of stuff until you reach your quota, then you set them aside.

The numbering system is arbitrary. I don't know why I didn't think of this further.

I had to order sequential labels for my previous company, and #1 went on which ever item happened to be there in front of the guy applying the stickers.

The numbers may have no actual indication of what order it came off of the "assembly line".

One prop company started selling their products labelled "One of 1000" which is not a number... it's only one of those 1,000. Smart move. Everyone gets to have a "One".

It's good that today's casting standards are higher because you can see #1,317 of the MR ROTS, and it looks as good as #52.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:16 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
It's good that today's casting standards are higher because you can see #1,317 of the MR ROTS, and it looks as good as #52.

Yeah... production moved to China! :lol


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:21 pm 
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Ugh, don't get me started about China. :angry4

And yes, I know it was off to a very rocky start, but once MR got them to produce the helmets at their quality standards, you don't see any warpage or anything like that. Nobody complains about jaw droop or neck flare.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:36 pm 
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I think it all comes down to quality control and process control. You think its possible that MR went through the production facilities with a specific DMAIC in mind? (DMAIC = Design, measure, analyze, improve, control) Basically a process and quality control function.

Plus MR doesnt do near the overall volume of production (multiple product lines, styles, & qty's) that Don Post or Rubies does. So they can have a better overall level of product QC.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:18 pm 
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Well, nowadays, a lot of overseas businesses not only offer competitive costs (reduced costs translate to better profit margins) but they even claim to be ISO 9000 certified.

There are places in China that can also take a photograph and print it on an irregular surface. This is how the eyes of MR's "Shrek" bust was done. The results are phenomenal. No need of hand-painting for that. What's next: using this process for a "All Spark" prop (Transformers Movie)?


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