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 Post subject: worm
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:44 pm 
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Topic Merged- Darthvaderv


Too Much Garlic wrote:
I would say all details. Whether there was a transition stage with some clean-up involved between that original mold and the mold that created the ESB helmets is unknown, but there is physical evidence to suggest more detail on raw casts of production helmets as they came out of the mold, than is even seen in the best fan helmets and casts from the Rick Baker mold.



Evidence based on what? You've never even seen a cast from the Rick Baker mold in person.


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I was sure I had found evidence of the two "worms" appearing briefly in a scene during ANH, but gone in the next (peeled off or fell off during angle changes in the scene, which would be consistent with it being small parts of the mold that had ripped off when peeling it off the helmet after molding, sticking to the facemask and then falling off by themselves on their own), but I can no longer find the picture I captured and can't really make it out in the HD movie - due to my current crappy computer setup - though it was in the Tantive IV scene where Vader had just sent off Leia and was walking down the corridor with that officer and just in the scene where he turned to talk with that other officer telling him about the escape pod, I saw it briefly. Could just be grain or my eyes playing tricks on me, sure. But it was the only time I saw the "worm" shapes at the whiskers on the right cheek in ANH. "Worms" that are on authentic ESB/RotJ production casts and several tour helmets and fan owned helmets. I thought it was a cool little discovery, placing that molding at during production, but seeing as I cannot find the picture anymore it just remains conjecture. I hate that I can't find the picture now... :banger



You'll find the most obvious worm clearly in a particular TIE fighter cockpit sequence. I'll post it later today if I remember. It was definitely there during production, at least part of the production.


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 Post subject: worm
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:57 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Evidence based on what? You've never even seen a cast from the Rick Baker mold in person.

I still know what they lack.

SithLord wrote:
You'll find the most obvious worm clearly in a particular TIE fighter cockpit sequence. I'll post it later today if I remember. It was definitely there during production, at least part of the production.

Cool. I'll check out the TIE sequences too.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:42 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:17 am 
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Does anyone have a good shot of the helmet from the side? Maybe from Comic con. I can only find front, top, front kind of to the side but I'm looking for a level straight side shot. Gino said he does not have any more pics and he thought maybe someone at Comic Con may have one.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:57 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Image

Cool picture. So, if that's a molding artifact that ripped off from the mold when it was made, can we then conclude that the UK mold was made during the Tantive scenes? Man... I gotta find that picture again. Why can't he effing stop moving so much in that scene. This is the closest I got... but it's kinda blurred... :grumpy
Image

The thing is... the RB mold doesn't have the "worms". Only the UK one does... and now those worms have been placed in scenes in the movie during the end of production.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:10 pm 
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You guys are slow :blah Old thread. I mentioned this loosely a while back with Thomas saying about the tie and me the Tantive.

vp46255.html#p46255


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 Post subject: worm
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:22 pm 
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I must have been sick that year. :blah

Anyway... there's no denying that the UK mold was made right smack at the end of ANH production. Evidence is there for all to see ON SCREEN. :thumbsup

The question then is... if they still had the production mold - the one that made the screen helmet and duplicates - why make a new mold from a screen worn, battle damaged helmet? It can only suggest that the original mold was unavailable, but there were no deals for a second movie yet, so it wasn't to make new ones for future films... or what? - even though it was used for the subsequent movies! And... a raw cast from that mold would have an exorbitant amount of more details we haven't seen in ANY of the fan owned or licensed helmets. Really hope one pops up soon.

It certainly puts the Elstree Carpet picture right at the end of production too... maybe even at the exact time just after it was molded. The worms were gone or removed by the time Rick Baker molded it in the US.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:30 pm 
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This has turned into a really interesting thread, I enjoy reading and learning from you Vader experts.

I'm not 100% sure if this is the same thing you guys are talking about, but it appears that a worm looking thing can be seen on the MP/ESB promo helmet too, albeit softened by the heavy application of paint...

Image

Cheers,

Kraig


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:32 pm 
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Yeah, it sure looks like there's something there, but it isn't placed exactly where the worm is... and it isn't seen on other RB mold casts.

And I looked at the thread that Darthvaderv posted, but the picture in that thread isn't showing the worm, but the general gonk in that area, which is seen throughout the entire movie and would have carried over into the RB mold, which is also visible on those casts.
You can see it more clearly in this one. Not a worm, but definitely something that can catch the light - maybe even what ripped out a piece of silicone when it was molded (the worms).
Image
You can also see that irregularity somewhat in later scenes, which were filmed earlier:
Image

The only time I thought I saw it during the Tantive scene was in this segment - not the rest:
Image

But it was definitely there when they filmed the TIE cockpit scenes back in the US, as shown by SL's picture.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:59 pm 
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Too Much Garlic wrote:
And I looked at the thread that Darthvaderv posted, but the picture in that thread isn't showing the worm, but the general gonk in that area, which is seen throughout the entire movie and would have carried over into the RB mold, which is also visible on those casts.
You can see it more clearly in this one. Not a worm, but definitely something that can catch the light - maybe even what ripped out a piece of silicone when it was molded (the worms).
But it was definitely there when they filmed the TIE cockpit scenes back in the US, as shown by SL's picture.



Yes, and notice as well that by the time of the Elstree photo that with the repaint there was more added to it, the shape changed a little bit. And that shape is different from what you see in ESB.

Perhaps there was a slight imperfection there originally but it was shallow, then with finishing it was built up a bit more. Perhaps the lighting in the TIE just brings it out more, or there was some touch-up on that side of the mouth after the Tantive scenes that added to it.

What I was told was that the RB mold was believed to have been taken during the pickups of ANH. I'm not stating this as fact but what is believed by people who worked for ILM.

Were the TIE scenes part of the production proper or were they "pickups"?


Of course this discussion bears a lot on the TD ANH, which I have still been learning new things about.

Maybe we should split this discussion off into a new thread?


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:47 pm 
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yakcam wrote:
This has turned into a really interesting thread, I enjoy reading and learning from you Vader experts.

I'm not 100% sure if this is the same thing you guys are talking about, but it appears that a worm looking thing can be seen on the MP/ESB promo helmet too, albeit softened by the heavy application of paint...




I had a look at that too but it isn't the same feature.


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 Post subject: ANH Vader cheek worm discussion thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:57 pm 
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I'm hoping to continue discussion of the cheek worm in this thread from the eFX Vader helmet thread. Can the posts from that thread be moved here if that is agreeable to everyone? Although it was discussed in relationship to what we see on the screen ANH mask, invariably it will lead to discussion of authentic castings as well, hence I placed it in this section of the forum.


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 Post subject: Re: eFX ANH Vader?!?! WOW
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:15 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Yes, and notice as well that by the time of the Elstree photo that with the repaint there was more added to it, the shape changed a little bit. And that shape is different from what you see in ESB.

How it looks in that Elstree picture is not how it looks after the repaint. Sorry. And the worm isn't there at the time of the repaint. At that time it's back to normal with the minor gonk, but no worms.

If it wasn't there through most of ANH production and gone again in appearances after production + after the repaint, your argument makes no sense. So what part of the Elstree picture suggests it was after it was repainted in the US for the appearances?


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader cheek worm discussion thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:17 pm 
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I'm cool with taking it separate. Just shoot a staff member a pm and it'll happen.


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader cheek worm discussion thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:15 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
SithLord wrote:
Yes, and notice as well that by the time of the Elstree photo that with the repaint there was more added to it, the shape changed a little bit. And that shape is different from what you see in ESB.


How it looks in that Elstree picture is not how it looks after the repaint. Sorry. And the worm isn't there at the time of the repaint. At that time it's back to normal with the minor gonk, but no worms.

If it wasn't there through most of ANH production and gone again in appearances after production + after the repaint, your argument makes no sense. So what part of the Elstree picture suggests it was after it was repainted in the US for the appearances?



I didn't say that the Elstree shows the repaint as it appears in the Chronicles. That is an entirely different repaint, a more extensive and comprehensive one. In the Elstree photo the mask is painted over in areas like Vader's left cheek and the neck. And that was before the Chronicles repaint.

Here is what I meant how the worm in the Elstree photo is a bit different as if there was additional paint over it...it is angled a bit differently. Here I am actually comparing it to what I think is the worm on the original mask at the time of the Corbis photos.

Image


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