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Fiberglass or Plastic?
http://thepropden.aokforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2332		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  chefhawk [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
Great work sir.
The ANH trooper helmet is a very very difficult sculpt to do. I know firsthand as ive done 3 so far and im still not there. To do this well on the "first take" is amazing to say the least.
Dont forget the left eye is longer/wider than the right.
And the right tube is at a slight different angle.


Keep up the good work mac.

cheers
Author:  troopermaster [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
Very nice job there Mac :thumbsup

It looks like you will have your work cut out if you plan on making vacuum forming bucks from this sculpt. If it's going to be a display piece only then there is no reason not to use fibreglass.

You are at a good stage now to do some fine tuning with the details. The overall shape looks really good and just need some areas working on to get that look that we all know and love. Of course, you don't have to go for screen accurate look, but IMO, that's the only way to go. If you go for fibreglass, then I would soften the hard edges very slightly to give the illusion of being vacuum formed plastic.

Looking forward to seeing more of this in the future!

-Paul :salut
Author:  CSMacLaren [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
Guys,

It's very encouraging to read all this feedback. I studied some screenshots and ended up getting bit by the accuracy bug again.

This is an earlier progress shot comparison (I've since moved past this point and sanded things down and made the sides of the domecap less parallel, etc.)

Image

I'm not set up for either FG or vacforming, but I'm inquiring into someone who has very good experience in this aspect for advice and possible help.

I have a few questions, if I may:

1. Fans - I understand some costumers prefer the larger FX because of an issue of air flow and fan installment. I don't know if this is just a good technical sounding excuse for covering up their inability to recognize the FX's inaccuracy, but let's say for now the TE/AP/TM, etc. are too "small" for the type of fans these costumers say they want to put in. Is there any merit to this arguement? And where, exactly, do the fans get installed? I can create a variant of this helmet that is deeper that would allow more air, or I could make a version where the two chin buldges are larger. But I've also noticed some powerful and quiet laptop fans starting to get adopted. Should I just ignore the whole notion of creating an FX-friendly replacement?

2. I'm not set up to be a perpetual vendor because I have to rely on a third party to make these and ship them. I live in apartment and use the kitchen sink (literally) for hand-sanding and sculpting, so my tools and materials compete for kitchen counter space with my kitchen stuff. I have no garage. So if I were to look forward, depending on the time and availability of a vac-former to help me, I'd say we might do a very short run as a first try. I'd make sure these only took weeks to ship once completed, as the T*E 30th Anniv. run was supposed to ship similarly but took a year to finally get out the door (no offense to T*E).

3. Given (2), why would anyone want this when TE/TE2, etc. helmets actually have lineage and mine does not? Is it an availability issue?

4. In my observation, the stormtrooper helmet is the most recast possible. I don't know if recasters/copiers feel the right to just copy them because they're "LFL property" or something. I understand even the FX has been recast (no accounting for taste) but if the FX - a fan sculpt - has been copied, what's to say people would honor a purely fan-made original sculpt?

5. The trapeziums on the temples - are they supposed to be parallel with the ground, or are they supposed to angle forward? Or is the angle forward dependent on backplate positioning?

6. The pinch on the left (as you look at it) tube (wearer's right) where the ears are attached. Does this pinch exist on the other side of the face as well?

Please pardon the newb questions as I've honestly not studied stormtroopers much at all. Up till now, I've merely just glanced and moved onto things darker and more metallic. :toothy
Author:  NAZGÛL [ Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
You have great skills and the sculpt looks nice. :thumbsup

I'm by no means an expert, but just interested in stormtroopers. Anyway I thought Id have a go at some of the questions.

1. I have seen fans used in many correct sized helmets. There are many pics of installed fans if one look at whitearmor.net.

I allways thought the FX was popular due to the price tag and availability. Now quality helmets are more common and I think the MR CE is taking FX´s place as the budget helmet.

3. To me its really hard to say how many would be interested in a helmet without lineage no matter how nice it is. I imagine a high quality fan made Vader helmet without lineage but with a low price would have a higher chance to be a big success.

4. I agree that there is a big risk that someone will recast a popular helmet, fan made or not.


Just my two cents.


Cheers!


/Naz
Author:  CSMacLaren [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
Nazgul,

I appreciate the response. I was wondering why nobody was answering my questions.

Over at whitearmor, I've noticed people buy the symmetrical CE helmet, then doing some minor mods, and pairing them up with their FX armor.

However, the CE looks very compressed in the face. I don't know what can be done to correct this, but the armor and CE helmet look very mismatched.

Thanks for the insights on the fans.

Now I have another question.

Accurate helmets appear to be put on sideways, then rotated 90 degrees until the face is positioned forward. Do people use the FX because they need a deeper helmet whereupon the don't have to do the sideway thing?
Author:  RBJ [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
..let me throw in my 2 cents :wink:

1.The constant clinging to the FX helmet by the 501st TKs has noting to do with size, fan placement, twisting it on or anything to do with the helmets design itself. The majority of 501st TKs use the FX and do not want to be forced to change so excuses like needing room for fans etc. start spreading.I have a giant head, wear big Buddy Holly glasses, and fit in a smaller more accurate helmet with three fans and a helmet contained mic/amp/speaker set up.

2.If there is one helmet that there is no shortage of, it's the TK's.As far as runs go, I would do whatever you feel is manageable and fun.

3.If it can fill a gap in the market people will want it. I used to troop with a ANHV2 (another nice helmet, version2) by Imperial Surplus ( Kevin W..better known as OSCS). His was nice because his helmet was more accurate than a FX, but a bit bigger than a screen accurate (TE2 etc) size..I liked that no because of the extra room myth, but because of my size (6'4") I looked kinda pin headish with a screen sized lid..I believe he is no longer making them

4. The rampant recasting and complete disregard for it shown by the majority of the 501st is the main reason I sold my TK costume (That ,and a trooper that is taller than Vader never looks right :lol ) Your helmet WILL be recast by someone somewhere, and everyone will look the other way, sorry to say.

5. Not sure what you mean?

6.Nope, left only is all I've seen

My TK (FX armor, ANHV2 helmet):
Image

Looking forward to more progress on you Trooper...
Author:  NAZGÛL [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
Yeah, the CE, as the MR Shadow trooper, is mirrored to become symmetrical and that does make the face look somewhat narroved. I think one is better off finding more accurate helmets (like yours?) if one doesnt like that look rather than changing it. IMO its strenght is the symmetrical look so why "correct" it?

I dont really think the twist when putting the helmet on is a big thing. I mean Han did it in A New Hope right? So my guess is no to your question.


/Naz
Author:  Anakin Starkiller [ Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
Hey Mac,

Your sculpt looks amazing, and it just keeps getting better and better. I think it would be a real shame if you didn't end up doing something with it. If only making a one off for yourself, or a very small run for frineds.

BTW- I had a crazy thought that I wanted to run by you. Have you considered using your trooper sculpt that the basis for a Stormtrooper prototype helmet? It seems almost provdential that you reveal your helmet at the same time as Brian shows us all a prototrooper.

Perhpase a fiberglass helmet with big trapazoids no ear gap and those extra back details could be something interesting.

my .02

-best

Dan
Author:  CSMacLaren [ Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
RBJ wrote:
My TK (FX armor, ANHV2 helmet):
Image

Looking forward to more progress on you Trooper...


Who makes that ANHV2? Is that the FX version 2?
Author:  CSMacLaren [ Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
Anakin Starkiller wrote:
Hey Mac,

Your sculpt looks amazing, and it just keeps getting better and better. I think it would be a real shame if you didn't end up doing something with it. If only making a one off for yourself, or a very small run for frineds.

BTW- I had a crazy thought that I wanted to run by you. Have you considered using your trooper sculpt that the basis for a Stormtrooper prototype helmet? It seems almost provdential that you reveal your helmet at the same time as Brian shows us all a prototrooper.

Perhpase a fiberglass helmet with big trapazoids no ear gap and those extra back details could be something interesting.

my .02

-best

Dan


Dan,

You want me to make this??

Image

Well, my intention was to make a TIE Pilot at some point in 2009. Since I can't be bothered to find a source for the little metal box, I figured I could just sculpt the thing you see at the back of this prototype's head.

It would be very easy for me to add it to my MacStormy, but let's see what we can manage. I have no capability of reproducing any of my work unfortunately and have to rely on others. A friend is working on a vacforming table, and it may require some practice before anything can be done in plastic, but we remain postive! :thumbsup
Author:  RBJ [ Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiberglass or Plastic?
"Who makes that ANHV2? Is that the FX version 2?"

http://www.imperialsurplus.com/

RBJ wrote:
I used to troop with a ANHV2 (another nice helmet, version2) by Imperial Surplus ( Kevin W..better known as OSCS). His was nice because his helmet was more accurate than a FX, but a bit bigger than a screen accurate (TE2 etc) size..I liked that no because of the extra room myth, but because of my size (6'4") I looked kinda pin headish with a screen sized lid..I believe he is no longer making them
.
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