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Real Suit Facts - Discussion Thread
http://thepropden.aokforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=214&t=1907
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Author:  vaderman [ Wed May 21, 2008 1:14 am ]
Post subject: 

SithLord wrote:
I know this is something Brian and I differ on, and I know that fiberglass shins were made because I've seen a pic of them being made, but I have heard the opinion that what Dave Prowse wore were ABS shins. I'm sure someone might be able to confirm this with Dave. At least when the suit reached DP studios they were ABS. This might even be visible onscreen...but I've not studied it in that way yet. Well it's not fact just an idea of them being ABS but it would be nice to pin down. Brian were you able to see the screen-used shins? I guess if you did that would settle the matter.

But they are clearly left and right side on the screen suit.


Again Thomas the facts are that I know the shins were cast in fibreglass. Why would they go to the extra cost and time of having to make tools to pull (vacuum form) ABS shins which is an inferior material which splits when they only needed 2 anyway?


Brian

Author:  artisanprops [ Wed May 21, 2008 3:22 am ]
Post subject: 

SithLord wrote:
Just a point of information. Although Brian sculpted two sides to the shoulder bells, only one is seen on the suit in ANH and in production stills...which could be why fanmade armor also has just one bell, not a sided pair.


I hope I'm not out of line here. :( I mean no disrespect towards the mods
or Thomas, but if an opinion is stated as fact and cannot be backed up
with proof, I think it needs to be left for another thread since this is a facts
only thread.. I like the way this thread is going, but would rather see it
stay facts and not opinion..

if Thomas has the photo's to back up this statement, then My Sincere Apologies and a thank you for the info.. :wink:

Author:  SithLord [ Wed May 21, 2008 3:37 am ]
Post subject: 

Fair enough. Maybe we should have an establish the facts thread :wink:

Anyway, Kermit had two bells of the same side. And ABS shins. And he had the original screen suit. Whether they were replaced by the time he got it I don't know.

Author:  vaderman [ Wed May 21, 2008 4:05 am ]
Post subject: 

That's right Thomas you don't know so why quote it on a 'facts only' thread?

I've been very careful to only give facts that I know to be true from being on the film but you're suggesting some unnamed person's opinion overrides that and quite honestly I find that quite insulting and it insults the intelligence of all the other members of the forum.

Brian

Author:  HAL9000 [ Wed May 21, 2008 6:19 am ]
Post subject: 

Also, as I understand it, these are the facts of the production of the ANH suit - not what happened to it after it wound up in LA.

Othwerwise, why bother have Brian's input?

Author:  AnsonJames [ Wed May 21, 2008 6:51 am ]
Post subject: 

Thomas,

As you know Brian made the helmet, armour and shins for the ANH vader - he knows exactly what he's talking about so disputing him is utterly ridiculous and bloody rude to boot.
This is the facts thread so if you've got theories put them in another thread (as you have already done with your theory on the shins) if you don't have photos or documentation to back up your theories then DON'T post them in this one.

This is a thread about the production of the ANH Vader, not what happened to it by the time it got to Don Post.

Another couple of confirmed facts from Brian Muir;

The shins were made from fibreglass.

The shoulder bells were individual sculpts - left and right.

Author:  AnsonJames [ Wed May 21, 2008 7:01 am ]
Post subject: 

CSMacLaren wrote:
The Prop Den: Code of Conduct wrote:
• Do not make factual claims or assertions that you are unwilling or unable to back up. If you do not have or are unwilling to provide support for a claim you make, you must frame that claim as an opinion (i.e. “I think that . . .” or “I believe that . . .”). Members here have a right to know why certain things are fact or purported fact; the absence of proof only creates uncertainty, and blindly following non-supported assertions will inevitably lead to misinformation. One of the essential pillars the Den was founded upon is the open sharing of information for the benefit of all members. If you feel like making unsubstantiated claims, please take them to other forums.


Thanks Mac -

This says it all perfectly.

Author:  SithLord [ Wed May 21, 2008 9:04 am ]
Post subject: 

vaderman wrote:
That's right Thomas you don't know so why quote it on a 'facts only' thread?

I've been very careful to only give facts that I know to be true from being on the film but you're suggesting some unnamed person's opinion overrides that and quite honestly I find that quite insulting and it insults the intelligence of all the other members of the forum.

Brian



Kermit Eller worked for LFL and wore the original screen suit for the SW tour until 1979. And it's not difficult to check with Dave Prowse to corroborate that account, but I haven't asked him that yet.

I know there were fiberglass shins. Did you see the original shins onset as being fiberglass? If you did then it's a fact that they were fiberglass as seen onscreen, at least at some point during principle photography. And the suit wasn't handed to Kermit by an anonymous person either....

You don't have to take it personally, especially when you don't know whom I am speaking of. And I think the other members of the forum here can speak for themselves if they find my comments overly offensive.

Author:  SithLord [ Wed May 21, 2008 9:05 am ]
Post subject: 

CSMacLaren wrote:
The Prop Den: Code of Conduct wrote:
• Do not make factual claims or assertions that you are unwilling or unable to back up. If you do not have or are unwilling to provide support for a claim you make, you must frame that claim as an opinion (i.e. “I think that . . .” or “I believe that . . .”). Members here have a right to know why certain things are fact or purported fact; the absence of proof only creates uncertainty, and blindly following non-supported assertions will inevitably lead to misinformation. One of the essential pillars the Den was founded upon is the open sharing of information for the benefit of all members. If you feel like making unsubstantiated claims, please take them to other forums.



Ask Kermit and the person that gave the suit to him and prove me wrong then.

It's another account, so please stop patronizing me with the COC.

Author:  SithLord [ Wed May 21, 2008 9:10 am ]
Post subject: 

AnsonJames wrote:
Thomas,

As you know Brian made the helmet, armour and shins for the ANH vader - he knows exactly what he's talking about so disputing him is utterly ridiculous and bloody rude to boot.
This is the facts thread so if you've got theories put them in another thread (as you have already done with your theory on the shins) if you don't have photos or documentation to back up your theories then DON'T post them in this one.

This is a thread about the production of the ANH Vader, not what happened to it by the time it got to Don Post.

Another couple of confirmed facts from Brian Muir;

The shins were made from fibreglass.

The shoulder bells were individual sculpts - left and right.



Look I thought I would provide additional information about the original suit. If you are not interested then fine. The suit apparently got into Kermit's hands with fiberglass shins and with two bells of the same side. I'm not questioning Brian I'm simply stating an additional account. If it's inaccurate then there were always only fiberglass and there were always two different bells. And read my posts, I'm not disputing him, there could have been both during the production. But if Brian knows for a fact there never were fiberglass shins using onset during the entire production, then fine.

Author:  SithLord [ Wed May 21, 2008 9:18 am ]
Post subject: 

vaderman wrote:

Again Thomas the facts are that I know the shins were cast in fibreglass.



I never disagreed with this because as I said I saw the image of the fiberglass shins being sanded. But were they always fiberglass as used onset during the entire production? I'm entitled to ask that question like anyone else who would like to learn more about the original suit. I'm more than happy to accept they were fiberglass and sided bells during the whole production. Anyway, sorry it was misinterpreted.

Author:  AnsonJames [ Wed May 21, 2008 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 

SithLord wrote:

It's another account, so please stop patronizing me with the COC.


Stop patronizing the rest of us and folks will stop quoting the COC.
For the last time, if you don't have photos or documentation to back up what you saying then don't bother.

I'm not interested in Kermit Eller or what happened to the suit - this thread is not about that.

Author:  No Humor Man [ Wed May 21, 2008 12:40 pm ]
Post subject: 

Topic was split from this topic: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.

~ The Staff

Author:  Lambotour [ Wed May 21, 2008 9:24 pm ]
Post subject: 

OT post edit.

Author:  CSMacLaren [ Wed May 21, 2008 10:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

I think "Establishing the facts" as a thread title is an oxymoron. Since this thread is a spinoff of AnsonJames' excellent thread, and that thread has Brian Muir generously sharing his personal experience, what Brian says is factual and needs no establishing.

Correlating, sure, but establishing, no. (e.g. If Brian states something, and if it provides better understanding in how we interpret photos, and our improved observations corroborate with what he says.)

So is this thread, instead, not establishing the facts but establishing whether things previously thought of as fact are indeed factual or conjecture?

Just an observation.

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