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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:51 pm 
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Just noticed something on the inside of the dome. I may be WAY OFF... but it seems to me that it is possible that at least the Chronicles dome IS the screen used ANH Tantive dome.

Image

If anyone have better screen captures or pictures of the helmet pre re-paint showing this area of the inside of the dome and whether you see these shapes that I do... please post them up.


Last edited by No Humor Man on Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:11 am 
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Too Much Garlic wrote:
Just noticed something on the inside of the dome. I may be WAY OFF... but it seems to me that it is likely that at least the Chronicles dome IS the screen used ANH Tantive dome.

Image


I can't see it in the screen cap (too dark).

BTW Carsten, doesn't Thomas have the rights to the red squiggles? lol (sorry Thomas - had to)


Doug


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:17 am 
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Yeah, tried to lighten the image... didn't look very good.

Tried in two different programs. Paint Shop Pro to the left and Photoshop to the right.

Image

And no... he reserves the right for Paint red squiggles. I reserve the right for photoshop red squiggles.


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:25 pm 
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Well the Death Star conference room and Tantive IV both have a large component of overhead lighting so invariably that whisker will look dark. That again is why the TIE cockpit shots are helpful.

Yes red squiggles are trademark SithLord Squiggles Inc. all rights reserved. :cool:

I agree the Chronicles dome is the screen one based on Carsten's pointed out details but one can also look at the brow flaring area where there are imperfections that match the screen dome.


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:33 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
I agree the Chronicles dome is the screen one based on Carsten's pointed out details but one can also look at the brow flaring area where there are imperfections that match the screen dome.

I was concentrating on internal details that won't get replicated on a new cast from a mold off the original, whereas outside details might get carried over.

There is also the way the neck is painted on the Chronicles one that is difficult to replicate unless you deliberately try to match things to the screen used, so I doubt very much that the screen used and the Chronicles are two different helmets. Especially the brushed line down the center of the neck shows remarkable similarities in the various shots from before and after the repaint to not be the same helmet.

The Chronicles was repaired/repainted, but I think it is clear that it was a minimalistic job, repairing only the absolute needed and otherwise left most of everything else intact. And even when painting... if the coat is done evenly and thin enough, you will only slightly mute the surface details, not cover them all - just making them a tad bit softer, but still present. But some key things WERE removed/covered in the repaint.


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:01 pm 
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Too Much Garlic wrote:
There is also the way the neck is painted on the Chronicles one that is difficult to replicate unless you deliberately try to match things to the screen used, so I doubt very much that the screen used and the Chronicles are two different helmets. Especially the brushed line down the center of the neck shows remarkable similarities in the various shots from before and after the repaint to not be the same helmet.


Well, the paint line down the front center of the neck is part of the repaint. But the one on the Chronicles is a complete and clear line and where the paint meets that line on either side is also unique and not seen earlier on, making that line as we see it unique to the mask at that time. Whether a previous paint line was in the same spot is likely given we see a remnant of one on the TM/TD.

As an aside, I think to myself, why is there a paint line there? Why would one have to divide the neck into left/right halves when painting?


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:25 pm 
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I have a theory, what if when they decided to put on the gunmetal highlights, the guy did that side of the mouth? But when on film it looked unbalanced so they decided to make it more symmetrical and redo it black. So he quickly got out the brush again but grabbed the black paint this time. I think that it may account for the brushstrokes. It might even be a satin or matt black, which can look washed out, almost like a dark gunmetal in the right lighting but would shine up nicely if they polished the helmet for, say, a photo shoot?

However, something's that's always bugged me since I first saw the Jefferson Starship pics, the close up one where Vader has his finger under the chin of the chick, the side of his mouth and his chin look to be the same shade of grey, complete with brush strokes, but I always put that down to being an old B&W photo.

I don't know, just a theory.

Cheers,

Kraig


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:46 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Too Much Garlic wrote:
There is also the way the neck is painted on the Chronicles one that is difficult to replicate unless you deliberately try to match things to the screen used, so I doubt very much that the screen used and the Chronicles are two different helmets. Especially the brushed line down the center of the neck shows remarkable similarities in the various shots from before and after the repaint to not be the same helmet.


Well, the paint line down the front center of the neck is part of the repaint. But the one on the Chronicles is a complete and clear line and where the paint meets that line on either side is also unique and not seen earlier on, making that line as we see it unique to the mask at that time. Whether a previous paint line was in the same spot is likely given we see a remnant of one on the TM/TD.

Check your reference again. It's on the helmet from the beginning. As you don't see it in all Chronicle pictures, you also don't see it in all pictures prior to the repaint. But, it is there. And... the brush stroke directions at that center conjunction are identical pre and post repaint,

SithLord wrote:
As an aside, I think to myself, why is there a paint line there? Why would one have to divide the neck into left/right halves when painting?

It's easier to get an even layer with metallic paint to paint small sections at a time, so it is only natural to paint one side first, tne the other, which you can also see on the brow of the facemask, where they clearly painted one side first, as it also has a paint dividing line straight up the front of the brow.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:03 pm 
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I don't think that's supposed to be an actual dividing line on the forehead. I agree there is a definite color-difference, but probably just like the other mixed, darker grey areas.


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:23 pm 
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Well, if you paint one side first, then the other, you will occasionally get a line or difference between the two sides because you may not be able to match the same coverage of the metal paint on the other side. You may even get a sharp border between the two sides that can get picked up when molding the piece or the border has blended seamlessly into the previously painted surface, leaving the area smooth, but with only the metal paint showing a division.

Like, when masking to only paint parts of an object, you can get smooth transitions or hard, depending on how you paint it, how thick a layer of paint you apply and the amount of time you leave the masking tape on there, if you are using tape: too quick and the wet paint will run, just perfect and you won't be able to tell the difference in topology between the two layers (blended perfectly), and too late, where you get a masking tape line. You can get lines, bleeding and perfect blends when painting without tape as a guide as well. So, though it isn't meant as a division, you will get such depending on how you paint the item... and clearly... they painted one side first, then the other, creating natural divisions between the two sides.

If you know what I mean.


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:42 am 
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Too Much Garlic wrote:
SithLord wrote:
Well, the paint line down the front center of the neck is part of the repaint. But the one on the Chronicles is a complete and clear line and where the paint meets that line on either side is also unique and not seen earlier on, making that line as we see it unique to the mask at that time. Whether a previous paint line was in the same spot is likely given we see a remnant of one on the TM/TD.

Check your reference again. It's on the helmet from the beginning. As you don't see it in all Chronicle pictures, you also don't see it in all pictures prior to the repaint. But, it is there. And... the brush stroke directions at that center conjunction are identical pre and post repaint,



I meant the brush strokes are completely different on the chronicles mask neck compared to that of the original paintwork where they meet the center line (as shown below). So the paint line seen on the chronicles photos is likely a result of the repaint. Sure it could be over the same center point where a line previously was for the original paint (as is seen on the TM or TD), but the neck by the time of the chronicles is completely repainted.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:04 pm 
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Too Much Garlic wrote:
Well, if you paint one side first, then the other, you will occasionally get a line or difference between the two sides because you may not be able to match the same coverage of the metal paint on the other side. You may even get a sharp border between the two sides that can get picked up when molding the piece or the border has blended seamlessly into the previously painted surface, leaving the area smooth, but with only the metal paint showing a division.

Like, when masking to only paint parts of an object, you can get smooth transitions or hard, depending on how you paint it, how thick a layer of paint you apply and the amount of time you leave the masking tape on there, if you are using tape: too quick and the wet paint will run, just perfect and you won't be able to tell the difference in topology between the two layers (blended perfectly), and too late, where you get a masking tape line. You can get lines, bleeding and perfect blends when painting without tape as a guide as well. So, though it isn't meant as a division, you will get such depending on how you paint the item... and clearly... they painted one side first, then the other, creating natural divisions between the two sides.

If you know what I mean.


Yep, and I agree too. :thumbsup


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:05 pm 
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SithLord wrote:

Image


Interesting. I never noticed the line before, other than on the TM!


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:40 am 
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That line down the center is in production pictures as well - they just didn't take professional photoshoot pictures where something like that would REALLY pop, like in the Chronicles pictures - and even in all those it is hard to spot except in a few of them.

The mesh is, as far as I'm aware, the same as the stuff in the mouth, except upside down and backside out.


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 Post subject: Re: efx Vader paint job
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:21 am 
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Too Much Garlic wrote:
That line down the center is in production pictures as well - they just didn't take professional photoshoot pictures where something like that would REALLY pop, like in the Chronicles pictures - and even in all those it is hard to spot except in a few of them.

The mesh is, as far as I'm aware, the same as the stuff in the mouth, except upside down and backside out.



My point remains that the paint is completely different, brush strokes are different, and so being repainted how could it be the exact same line if it was masked again in halves?


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