Just a question I asked myself recently as it came up I think on another thread...is the SW Chronicles ANH Vader helmet the original screen helmet, just repainted? Well I compared it to the Corbis photo of the original screen helmet seen on tour and for one thing the dome on the Chronicles is definitely not the original dome based on the interior and the flaring edges in the front. Also the widow's peak isn't as sharp on the Chronicles as the original. What I was more interested in was the faceplate and specifically the mouth grill since some of it is visible on the Chronicles faceplate. After staring at it and moving it around in overlays for a while, I just can't see it as being the same grill and I just don't see these two faceplates as being the same, even considering the possibility of a repaint. I even considered the angle difference or similarity. I could be wrong but as best as I can reasonably tell and I've examined the mouth grill from the original in many different angles and resolutions, I'd say it's not the same helmet.

Here's the starting point for the comparison...



And here's the closeup of the grill area I was interested in...



Obviously the grill on the Chronicles is black, and on the original it's almost white in color...gunmetal? The spacing of the grill pattern on the Chronicles seems greater than on the original.

Anyway just an observation...

I agree that the dome appears to have a slimmer edge... however, for some reason the whole helmet seems "squeezed" in a way and the corbis pictures are kinda "bloated". Seems possible to be caused by the way they were photographed.

Due to the tilt of the helmets, picture to picture, a direct overlay is not possible. From what I can see the grills are positioned the same way in both helmets.

The lenses: the scratches in those and glue marks around the edges are consistent with the Elstree ANH facemask picture.

Anyone know when the Chronicles picture was taken? Is it for certain that it isn't a pre-production picture when the helmet was still "pristine"? Also, with the correct light, you can make something dirty and banged up look fairly smooth and clean - just look at that picture that was used for the Vader poster, full figure and looking up to the right with saber in hand.

But interesting thoughts. The dome is definitely weird looking.

My theory is that it is not the screen used helmet.

But one of the original 3.

I agree - although one of the original 2

Cheers

Jez

I know what you mean.

Actually 3 were made but only two were finished. The third was a tool around helmet.

A tool around, or a fool-around?

Brian always mentioned three were pulled from the original mold. And DK how do you know only two were finished? Is this known? I don't know of any confirmation that the other two pulls were finished apart from the possible pull in my avatar.

I'll have to examine the lenses in more detail...it could be the same.

I think we can all agree at least the helmet (dome) is not the original (screen dome), although it could be an original. I just don't see the sharpness in the tubes that I would expect from an original mask...it could be the repaint...but I'm just not yet convinced. If it is an original or if it is THE original, then it was definitely repainted. But when were the chronicles photos taken? The Elstree mask photo, again, would have to be around 1979 if that is actually an Indy whip in the photo along with it.

One thing I'll point out as well...on later pulls the right cheek sags more and it looks that way to me although it's difficult to tell for sure without a front view... I get that impression compared to the Corbis photo, but I'll have another look at that as well.

Ok I convinced myself

The grill is the same...the yellow lines indicate the identical intersection points between the chronicles (left) and screen original (right).



Man, so they repainted it? So this must have been after the tour?

Wow.....

I thought the grill looked right, maybe just an angle difference causing it to look thinner.....also there is an obvious paint detail that is on the screen used present in the chronicles pic.

Now light could also contribute to the color.....in the ESB one sheet shots, it looks like it has a purple hue as if colored in with black permanent marker rather than paint if that makes sense.

I did this comp a while ago, but I don't think I ever posted it. After reading Mike's post I figured it would tie in with the paint detail comment. Not sure if Mike is seeing the same one I saw, but I thought I'd post it.

Good spot Pete. If this is screen used some things do not fit IMO. It has also been cleaned up as well as repainted if this is the case.

Very interesting.

I know this is a subject that has gone back and fourth a few times with some saying not screen used and others saying vice versa.

I still dont believe it is screen used. It is also possible for the mesh to be copied. In some of the ESB helmets although you can see variences in the mesh positioning most of it looks the same especially with small angles with photography.

This could be another good thread.

Thomas - I have always stated that there were 2 screen helmets that were locked away in a box every night in the wardrobe dept. One helmet was used most of the time and the second was used as a back up. No- one would have access to the 2 screen helmets - apart from wardrobe.

A third helmet was used by special effects to work out how to fix the front to the back, how the helmet would be fixed and how to fix the tusks.

In my opinion it is this third helmet that has been remoulded.

You state that the photo of the Elstree Props Vader helmet is dated circa 1979 because it has the Indy whip in frame. As Norman is still in possession of the original whip (which I saw for myself at Elstree about 2 years ago) I think this photo could have been taken at anytime.

Brian

Thanks for the info Brian..Very cool..

Vadermaina and Myself went to Elstree Props in March looking for those pictures again. Tom found the Indy whip by itself with the exact same carpet etc..but the Vader photo was missing. We felt it was kept in a safe place so to speak...Shame really especially as Paul Harrison thought it was still in the pile of photos.