I've recently started exploring the topic of the paint tone of the ROTJ Vader. Costumers who endeavor to approximate the screen look may prefer a darker paint, whereas prop collectors looking for prop accuracy try to approximate the original paint. In comparing both sides, I've found a contrast (no pun intended). I've often found ROTJ to be dark in exposure when Vader and the Emperor appear, but annoyingly bright in the Endor scenes as if to accentuate every frickin' Ewok in as much of an in-your-face-plus-an-arrow fashion as possible.

I believe the dark exposure and the black floor and ceiling have made us traditionally believe the paint of the ROTJ Vader is darker than ESB. The famous "smoke break" ILM photo of the table of ROTJ promo suits show a brighter metallic gray that is in vein with what we've seen on the screen used ESB.

I've prepared an infographic on the topic to visually compare different scenes in which the metallic gray paint appears differently due to lighting and surrounding dark colors. Enjoy!

Another great technical Vader topic!

Part of the mystique and menace of Vader to the movie viewer is not being able to clearly discern his facial characteristics. Many are likely unaware of the two-tone paint scheme. Multiple indirect light sources from various directions and of varying light source dimensions (point, line, and plane) make it difficult to discern the surface details of the mask. And it also makes it difficult to determine what's an diffuse reflection off a surface painted gray versus a specular reflection off a surface painted gloss black (unless, of course, you already know the paint scheme).

Irvin Kershner was masterful in his use of lighting in ESB. He made Vader look good! As he put it, ''As a former cameraman, I have very, very definite ideas of how to stage for the camera, and lighting. I chose my own cameraman. We worked together on making it look darker and let's say more mysterious.'' Ah, what a different movie ROTJ could have been with him at the helm. And I doubt Vader would have had that retinal scanner spotlight shining in his right eye as in the Endor corridor scene!

I did some web searching and found a discussion on "Light Reflectance Value" or LRV which is a measure of the lightness or darkness of a color. It's apparently on the back of some paint swatches. http://thelandofcolor.com/lrv-light-reflectance-value-of-paint-colors/ This might be useful as you evaluate and select paints for future projects.

very interesting. make sense.
the high gloss finish would reflect what is around it washing out the actual color of the helemt. to a degree. and effecting the visualization of the colors seen on film. plus the darker contrast of the film itself due to the camera.
and from those photos you've posted. could it be in some scenes that the high gloss finished wasn't used? it appears that way. if you look at the images from the opening hangar scenes the helmet is super high gloss. but then in the scenes on Endor where Vader talks with Luke the helmet looks to have a matt or flat finish to it.

but , even still. im sure the paint they used varied in tone or color. unless of course they used the same exact paint from the same exact can of paint used in the ESB.
so it is very possible that the paint they used for ROTJ could have been darker. slightly. specially if it wasn't for the same batch as Empire.

but you def make a valid point that the paint actually isn't really all that darker then ESB. only way to tell is to get the film used props side by side and compare in proper lighting.
that way we would know for sure.

Here's an example of how the lighting can make it difficult to distinguish between gunmetal and black. A reflection off an area of glossy black (or any reflective surface), will look like the color of the light source it is reflecting, depending on the intensity of the light source and the reflectance of the paint.

Notice the difference in these pictures in the area between the cheek and the tip of the nose.

In the first picture, the main source of light is an overhead light.

In the second pic, the main source of light is from a window to the left.

A lot of what you're seeing in the first three comparisons of Mac's photos are bounce card reflections on Vaders face. Instead of using another light to add a little fill on Vader's mask, it looks like the production team used bounce cards, foam core or collapsable reflectors, for their uplighting. In some cases it looks like they're using more than one bounce card - so you're getting oddly shaped highlights in the bubble lenses and on the cheeks.

Also regarding the lighting, depending on how you have your TV, computer display or iPad calibrated or set, will have a significant impact on the IQ of the movie and the stills. When I watch the movie on my TV or computer, it's not nearly as dark as the images I'm seeing on the left. What's more significant is the lighting scheme differences between ESB and ANH. My preference is still with ESB regards to directional lighting.

Me thinks the paint scheme was 'nearly' the same for the ESB and the ROTJ helmets. And I only base this off of what I'm seeing while watching the movies. The opening scene in ESB with Darth Vader is a very rich black except for the highlight on his left cheek. Masterful lighting, really.

ESB

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/dis ... 1220161454

ROTJ

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/dis ... 1220161546

Good observations!



That ESB shot of Vader is one of my favorites. Watch that scene again and note how different the helmet looks between "Set your course for the Hoth system" and "General Veers, prepare your men!" I'm pretty sure it's the same helmet, but the lighting makes it look very different.

Yes. Vader's helmet loses all of it's dimension during that last line as he walks off screen. Prior to that, Vader's helmet is so rich and glossy. So much depth. The lighting really shows off the lines - which makes it look a cubist mechanized skull. That's the Vader helmet I really grew up loving.

Are there any ESB Helmet available with a lineage to the ESB helmet? I know Mac makes a phenomenal lid. Just wondering if there are other options as well.

...as much as I want that SL, I see this ESB Vader helmet in that "The Rebels are there"... scene, and dayam! I hop the fence back the other way (ESB being my favorite of the Star Wars movies anyway).

Forgot to add, that production pic is outstanding. Didn't really expect the reflector to be THAT big. I use sheets of foam core when I'm set. White as a bounce card. Black as a flag.

The TM is "THE" ESB helmet you seek.

ESB is my favourite movie too, and for the same reasons as yours.

Vader's menace, refined.

Been trying to get ahold of these guys to hopefully talk with them about the TM Helmet - would love to line one up along with an SL. :D

I'm painting an ROTJ Vader helmet. I need help deciding which gray to use. Dupli-Color has two shades of gunmetal. One is darker than the other. Rustoleum has a nice metallic charcoal which seems darker than the two Dupli-Color gunmetal shades. I'm interested in recreating what was actually used on the original ROTJ helmets. Please let me know what you think.

Maybe offtopic but...sithlord1977 = kroenen77?

Cause of the gunmetal.
Would go for the lighter one, as the gunmetal gets darker when covered with clearcoat.

I don't think clear makes the color of the paint appear darker. My dad has owned an auto body shop for more than 30 years. I help him with vehicles all the time. The color of the paint stays the same after the clear is applied. Maybe it appears more reflective, but not darker. I think I'm going to use the Rust-Oleum metallic charcoal. The color is the tone I like. It contrasts well with the gloss black.

Well it has happend on my armour paintjob, as it was done the same way as told from me.
Was painted with the same paint's as the helmet but has two layers of clear coat on the armour instead of just one layer on the helmet and it's definitive darker.
But it may depends on the paint you use.

I think it depends on the clear coat used. I have used several different types of clear and here's what I found:
Most lacquer clear coats will change the paint color, (most notably in silver) but a good urethane clear coat won't. I always use a urethane clear with hardner and I've never noticed a change in the paint.

Jup that may happend to my stuff.