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 Post subject: OFFICIAL OT VADER HELMET COMPARISON THREAD
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:14 am 
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Just a continuation of that discussion about the VP/TM/etc...

Here's my post again from that thread...

Did I hear someone say "comparisons"? :wink:

The VP faceplate sharpness is on par with the TM ESB and they share the same source faceplate (from ANH). The VP has however been cleaned up in the rear section, right side of nosebridge, the teeth, etc (ie:...were it's rough on the ANH or TM ESB). But where there is no cleanup the features are as crisp as the TM ESB (sides of head, around the tubes). However, the VP is smaller. It's on par with the 20th C and DP deluxe in terms of size so ROTJ sized. The SPFX is smaller than the VP and about identical to the DP deluxe which is also smaller. But the VP is smaller by a bit than the TM ESB. The JB V2/SPFX/20th C are nearly identical.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:21 am 
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Location: Houston TX
PICTURES THOMAS. You know we need pictures. I have been telling you that for years :blah


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:23 am 
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This is a debate that can go on for years to come but, for some reason
I really don't mind :lol

:as2


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:35 am 
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LOL David I'll see what I can do....hey I have a comparison section on the Vader reference DVD :wink: Unfortunately I sold my SPFX ESB #1 long before I got the VP ANH so couldn't do a side-by-side of those.


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 Post subject: Re: OFFICIAL OT VADER HELMET COMPARISON THREAD
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:31 am 
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SithLord wrote:
Just a continuation of that discussion about the VP/TM/etc...


However, the VP is smaller. It's on par with the 20th C and DP deluxe in terms of size so ROTJ sized. The SPFX is smaller than the VP and about identical to the DP deluxe which is also smaller. But the VP is smaller by a bit than the TM ESB. The JB V2/SPFX/20th C are nearly identical.


I did not think the VP would be that much smaller then the TM, I assumed the TM was bigger but not by that much. Interesting information.


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 Post subject: Re: OFFICIAL OT VADER HELMET COMPARISON THREAD
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:38 am 
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SithLord wrote:
It's on par with the 20th C and DP deluxe in terms of size so ROTJ sized. The SPFX is smaller than the VP and about identical to the DP deluxe which is also smaller. But the VP is smaller by a bit than the TM ESB. The JB V2/SPFX/20th C are nearly identical.

Sorry, but that just strikes me as confusing.

First you say the VP is same size as the 20th C & DP DLX, then you say it's larger than the SPFX, which is same size as the 20th C & DP DLX. How can both the VP and SPFX be the same size with these two helmets if the VP is larger than the SPFX?

That doesn't make sense to me.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:16 pm 
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How are you measuring size, SL? I think measuring the cheek corners with calipers might help. In terms of skull size, the problem is that some vendors might pull the skull shape and/or neck shape outwards before the resin as fully cured. In situations like that, size measurements could produce a false positive.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:22 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Did I hear someone say "comparisons"? :wink:

The VP faceplate sharpness is on par with the TM ESB and they share the same source faceplate (from ANH). The VP has however been cleaned up in the rear section, right side of nosebridge, the teeth, etc (ie:...were it's rough on the ANH or TM ESB). But where there is no cleanup the features are as crisp as the TM ESB (sides of head, around the tubes). However, the VP is smaller. It's on par with the 20th C and DP deluxe in terms of size so ROTJ sized. The SPFX is smaller than the VP and about identical to the DP deluxe which is also smaller. But the VP is smaller by a bit than the TM ESB. The JB V2/SPFX/20th C are nearly identical.


This quote from the other thread entitled, "How did ORIGINAL ESB helmets connect to dome?"

Sorry if this is off topic, but if the VP and TM share the same source, then how did one get smaller than the other?

Which is larger -- the DP DLX vs the SPFX?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:43 pm 
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Hi,

I am a novice to darth vader helmets, so I read the post with interest to learn more about the helmets out there and kill afew brain cells trying to decipher the comparisons but still failed. So I tried the fool proof method and convert language descriptions into a simple equation to reaffirm the understanding of the size comparison and ignored the variables (ESB, ROTJ, ANH), or am I wrong to leave these variables out of the equations????

Anyway, summary:

TM>VP
VP=20C=DPdlx
SPFX<VP
SPFX=DPdlx
JBv2=SPFX=20C

From the above, I agree with nohumorman that something is not right or missing, or needs further clarifications.

I am puzzled but interested to know.

CORDIALLY FROM ME TO YOU.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:04 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
Sorry if this is off topic, but if the VP and TM share the same source, then how did one get smaller than the other?

The source is the screen used ANH helmet... unless I got it wrong. It was molded and produced something like the TM helmet...

Then a TM helmet was molded for ESB with the dome mech addition that the ring could be screwed onto was done (unless that was custom done for all the ESB helmets - I'm still not completely clear on that - in which case they didn't mold the TM, but just used TM casts (I'm only using the TM name in this instance as an example)).

Then either a new cast was made from the mold of the TM or a new mold was made for RotJ. If made from a TM or a cleaned up raw cast ESB... it could be generationally smaller - I don't know how it works in the movie biz, but recast model kits are measurably smaller than the original they were cast from.

And I highly doubt that the original molds still work today.



And David... I think you got it right. Something is definitely not right in that line-up and hope SL will clarify things soon.


However... is this topic about fan-made helmets or movie helmets?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:50 pm 
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NHM,

Since SL mentioned JB and SPFX, I'd say the scope includes fanmades that are descended from the LFL props. Such a comp would be valuable.

If the VP is generationally smaller, then this makes sense. It seems to have the right sharpness but less all the detail, which would suggest that it was made off of a sanded down ESB mask (post production timeframe). Is that a fair thing to say?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:42 pm 
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This has the makings of a good thread - I'm excited to see it develop


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:20 pm 
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The VP is bigger than 20tC/SPFX/JB V2 because it's from an original ROTJ casting...but by the time of ROTJ they might have remolded and lost a bit of size. Because there's a noticable difference between ROTJ and ANH/ESB.

Here's a short list of relevant helmets from largest to smallest based on cheek width. All measurements with calipers and accurate to 1/10th of a millimeter. Sorry I won't provide the actual measurements as requested by certain owners. But this is the ranking at least. Other features such as crown width, height etc will vary much more with the pull but lateral warpage of the face is less likely and based on multiple equivalent measurements of similar helmets, this system holds true. For example, the variability in size between 20th C is much less than between a 20th C and the VP ANH.

DJ ANH
TM ESB
VP ANH (1st pull copy)
GH ANH master (nearly identical with VP ANH)
GH ANH copy
JB V2 "master"
GH ROTJ
20th Century ESB
SPFX ESB #1 helmet (one of the first pulls)
VM02
Don Post Deluxe
Don Post CA
Elstree ROTJ
SPFX ANH (recent version)

The VP is only sanded in the rear section around the rear rim, teeth and nose and spots on the crown...otherwise the details are all there...there are sanding marks (or brush strokes) clearly visible on the VP.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:47 pm 
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Interesting, the DJ always looked fractionally smaller IMO then the TM because of the thinner looking neck I guess.

Well on certain comparisons it is always so difficult to tell but it always makes an interesting read..

Thanks for sharing that analysis based on your findings :cool:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:52 am 
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sl, you've had that many helmets pass through your hands?!


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