Bro what I mean when I say you cant compare it has to do with the way the ESB TM was cleaned up as it is evidenced on the first picture where you can see the sanding marks from the clean up. Of course you are gonna find matching details, but the fine details that are missing on the ESB TM are what set the GS and the ANH TM apart from it.

Juan, the fact the ESB had been sanded and it still shows similar details to the GS is pretty fantastic in and of itself.

You're right - the TM ESB clearly shows toolmarks from the cleanup. That sets them apart.

What I wanted to show is that both - the TM and the GS master - have the very same lineage to the same mold OR the same lineage to the very same helmet.

Sadly I do not own an unaltered TM helmet cast but I'm sure that the original TM helmet is much more crispier than the GS.

However in my opinion the GS dome is WAY better than the TM dome. Much less distortion!

Of course it links back to the same source. The screen used ANH helmet. That is not in question here. The question is where in the mold lineage line does it belong to.

The UK Mold lineage consists of the 20th C, VP (and sister helmets), TM, TD, and now the GS - and potentially the helmet from Australia, shown off recently.

What I forgot:

Compared the VP and the TD also...(via pics from this forum)...and both the TD and the VP share details with the TM and the GS.

This leads me to believe that the various helmets differ from one and another in small aspects bit for me without a doubt they all come from the same master helmet...not necessarily same molds...but the same helmet.

That goes for the facemasks only.

I'm desperate to see pictures of the same areas I've shown here...from the TD, the VP, the TM master...and even the SL.

Of course they connect to the same master source - the screen used ANH.

The SL is from another mold lineage of the original ANH - the US Mold or the Rick Baker tour mold. They do not have cast in tabs, they have filler around the eye lens edges and tusk tubes, and have a sunken in chin vent filler pattern with no to very minor grill imprints in neither chin triangle or mouth.

The UK mold has cast in tabs, different to no filler around the lens edges, filled in chin vent that's level with the rest of the neck surface, imprints of the mouth grill in the casts, and some have neck extensions. It is predominantly this mold lineage we see in ESB and RotJ.

You cant compare a reworked dome (for ROTJ) of the GS with an unaltered ESB dome (TM). I would like to see one ESB dome in the fan scene which is better than the TM...please show me

Original TM dome:

I think a lot of distortion is down to the moulding and castings rather than the original dome being distorted.

The TM domes issues depend on the run and who made them. I've got 5 TM domes and only one of them shows warpage. The other 4 have excellent shape. The ones that came from Mike's run have a pretty much identical overall shape to the GS with the exception of the widows peak area.

Can we delve into the statement made in this thread earlier that the ROTJ dome was made from an altered anh dome? (Perhaps it's another break-out thread for discussion?)
In this thread it has been stated as if it's a known fact.
In line with what Juan mentioned above, I thought the ESB & ROTJ are identical to one other than the widows peak. In the starwars costume book there is a photo of the 2 side by side & it's hard to tell the difference. I got it wrong initially before reading the description. This supports the theory.
Hence I think it's incorrect to say the gs helmet has been worked from an Anh & there could be evidence of Anh markings under the paint & in the cast...
Anyway , Another great discussion point, also nothing to get stressed or heated up over as has happened in the past.... (life has bigger stresses than defining the subtle details of Vader castings)
Looking for the experts view & hoping we don't say something too much that it becomes assumed fact

I think the whole thing would take a HUGE step forward when one of the two primary theories become proven fact:

Theory 1: there is ONE mold made back in the day (technically two - UK and US mold) from THE ANH helmet. No new molds for ESB and ROTJ - they came just as ANH out of the mold and were then modified to the desired look.

Theory 2: multiple molds were made - definately for ESB (ROTJ unsure).

I have no clue whatsoever since I don't have the sources other members here have.

I think none of the members here have ever seen a UK mold in person, me included. I tend to believe in theory 2. One master UK mold was produced from the screen used ANH faceplate. Castings were taken from that mold for production, tests, and as souvenirs. At least one of these castings has been altered (for ESB production?) - the casting was molded and this second gen. mold produced the TM (deeper eye sockets, deeper teeth on "original" TM casting). Perhaps another casting from the UK master mold has been cleaned further (removal of cast tabs etc.) and was molded again to produce another second gen mold for ROTJ production. Perhaps the master UK mold got detroyed at one point during production, and a new mold had to be produced from a first gen casting. I worked in the movie business for more than 25 years, and have witnessed similar things happening on other films.

Based on the sheer size of the faceplate casting, the TD could be a pull from the master UK mold (although the tusks were cut short on the casting). Dunno about the size of the GS casting (yet), one would assume that it is from the ROTJ era based on the dome. I have recently learned that ROTJ style Vader domes were already existing in around 1978 (more about that perhaps later in another thread), so it might be possible that the GS is a casting of the master UK mold.

I'm still of the belief that eye socket extension and deeper teeth is simply those areas trimmed roughly, without trimming that excess thickness from the rear. Trimming areas such as lenses and teeth is a two-part job - if you just do one, you'll leave all the thickness excess of the cast material. I got that result when trimming my TM's before I moved in to trim the excess from inside the mask to the grooved edge. It's not added material or a deliberate extension - simply leftover material from a simple trimming effort. At least that's my thoughts on it.

I have read this entire thread because the anticipation of receiving my fully finished CFO(GS) helmet is through the roof.

I will say this one thing. Every time the secrecy bull crap comes up I get very angry. Its pointless to even bring it up as a point of research when photos or details cant be shared. Its like running into a brick wall. I am very happy that Mark chose to remain open with the GS helmet and guys like me can actually obtain one. I am of your kind....wanting the most accurate authentic helmet my money can buy, But because of the secrecy I would never been able to purchase one. Then Mark comes in and changes the game! Kudos to Mark.

The recasting/adding details to other replicas is bull crap in my opinion. That will never stop. Why stop the progression of the community over a couple of theives? So what? I know that my GS helmet is the real deal and theirs is crap. It wont change the fact that our helmets we own come from authentic sources from authentic people. It boils down to the saying "Lucas raped my childhood". The past will never change, its there and will always be there as you and I experienced it. So in essence the authentic casts and helmets will always remain the same and in our hands. The crooks do not exist in my book they will not affect the piece that will be sitting on my shelf.