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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:22 pm 
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Zen... but naturally the way they molded it for the RotJ helmets and the way the ANH helmet was molded for the TE/GINO helmets would be the same, no? So why isn't this feature on the fanmades?

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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:44 pm 
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Zen I'm not really clear what you are saying.

My point was that the 'kink' or 'bulge' is not an assembly issue as certain people implied, it is part of the Jedi moulds. This kink appears to have remained on the Jedi helmets that were cast from an ANH/ESB helmet, it seems to be missing on Gino's helmets, which implies that his moulds were sanded down or changed prior to him receiving them. This in turn makes his claims of untouched moulds very questionable.

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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:11 pm 
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He's saying it could be an assembly artifact for ANH helmets, not ROTJ because ROTJ were cast from ANH helmets that had this 'defect'. If the ROTJ came from an ANH then who's to say that the ANH defect did not come from it's assembly?


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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:12 pm 
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IMO yes his moulds have been touched up in certain areas. For sure. But that kink is easily replicated with a HDPE helmet. The first time I assembled one I acidentally did it myself.. its because its so thin around that area, and yes, parts don't want to align correctly. Comparing a ROTJ face to an ANH cannot be used as 100% proof. Sure the ROTJ mould looks to have it, but its just a derivative of the ANH.


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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:36 pm 
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clutch wrote:
He's saying it could be an assembly artifact for ANH helmets, not ROTJ because ROTJ were cast from ANH helmets that had this 'defect'. If the ROTJ came from an ANH then who's to say that the ANH defect did not come from it's assembly?


You got it!

What I am saying is that just because the ROTJ helmet has the kink/ bulge while disassembled, does not prove that the bulge on the original ANH helmet was not caused by assembly. It very well could have been caused by assembly.

Therefore, this bulge on ANH helmets may or may have not been caused by assembly. The question of whether Gino's helmet is from an original unmodified ANH helmet is still open. One would have to determine if the helmet Gino claims to have used to mould his replica has the bulge or not. If it does have the bulge and Gino's helmet does not then Gino's helmet is not accurate to that particular helmet. However, do we know if all the ANH Stunt helmets have this bulge? If they don't, then the bulge could very well be attributable to how it was assembled and Gino's helmet may still be accurate in some sense to another ANH helmet, but not to the one that he said he got the mould from.


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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:55 pm 
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My SFS came with the kink:

Image

However none of the lids I own have this feature which Matt has admitted are on a few of the originals...

BrianR:
Image
StopThatShip:
Image
MoveAlong:
Image
ESBBadge:
Image

Scott

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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:28 am 
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I understand where you are coming from Zen, but the fact is that every original LFL helmet has this kink in the right hand (as worn) tube. It's not always as prominent because of the way the face is positioned and the ear cap fits snugly into the kink. If it were an assembly issue then surely it mould be visible on the opposite tube on at least one original helmet? What we are seeing is the actual shape of the tube, it's not a kink, just how it was sculpted.

I agree that the HDPE is very thin and flexible, but the tube would simply taper into the back tube of the helmet, not have a kink.


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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:56 am 
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clutch wrote:
He's saying it could be an assembly artifact for ANH helmets, not ROTJ because ROTJ were cast from ANH helmets that had this 'defect'. If the ROTJ came from an ANH then who's to say that the ANH defect did not come from it's assembly?


I see now thank you Clutch.

But surely that doesn't work because the helmets would have been take apart to be cast, so any assembly kink would pop out or return to its original shape when taken apart.

Joe

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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:20 pm 
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Thread unlocked and all "OT" posts deleted by request of Joe and Jez.

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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:36 pm 
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So... let me get this straight.

The original BrianR ANH was taken apart when being molded for the TE/GINO molds?
&
An original ANH was taken apart when being molded for the RotJ helmets?

Or where they molded while still being assembled?

THEN WHY AREN'T THEY SIMILAR?

And why does the ANH Hero helmets also have the kink if it is an assembly issue?

So... can anyone confirm if the BrianR helmet has this kink and if it does... why doesn't the replicas off of it have it, when all other replicas off ANH helmets have it - the RotJ helmets and the fiberglass TE SFS?

Just doesn't make sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:43 pm 
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From Jez's site:

Quote:
When making Return of the Jedi in 1981, Lucasfilm realised they needed more that the 12 remaining Stormtrooper helmets left from ANH/ESB so they made another 50 or so from the moulds of one of the remaining ANH/ESB helmets. However the mould collapsed during their manufacture, producing this distinctive squeezed and less sharp appearance.


There was also clearly a new ear cap made for most of the jedi helmets, the right one as you look at the helmets.

I seem to remember something about skins being moulded for Jedi helmets, which would account for the softer appearance.

Joe

EDIT:

Quote:
The original ANH/ESB helmet was dissembled and the pieces were back filled with Plaster of Paris, before ABS was vac formed over the top. The ABS was then used as a mould to form the new epoxy aluminium vac-form dies, from which the screen-used helmets derived.


This accounts for the softening of all the features. It also makes sense that the tears have marks in them on Jedi helmets.

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 Post subject: Re: Debunking Stormtrooper myths perpetrated by Gino
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:25 pm 
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troopermaster wrote:
I understand where you are coming from Zen, but the fact is that every original LFL helmet has this kink in the right hand (as worn) tube. It's not always as prominent because of the way the face is positioned and the ear cap fits snugly into the kink. If it were an assembly issue then surely it mould be visible on the opposite tube on at least one original helmet? What we are seeing is the actual shape of the tube, it's not a kink, just how it was sculpted.

I agree that the HDPE is very thin and flexible, but the tube would simply taper into the back tube of the helmet, not have a kink.



If ALL the original helmets have the bulge and only on the right side then I guess it does seem feasible that it was part of the original sculpt. The point of my earlier posts was that the ROTJ helmet cannot be used to disprove the bulge was a assembly issue because it was cast off of an original ANH helmet.


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