VP Helmet comparisons

Vadermonkey · **Joined:** Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:29 am **Posts:** 689

Tom, what does your mask measure from the front bottom lip to the necks edge if you lay a tape measure flat against it.....say from the 'mask line' (beginning of grey) down?

PM me if you want....

SithLord · **Joined:** Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:12 am **Posts:** 3115

Heh.....sorry Mike I don't give out measurements of my mask...

Midnight Trooper · **Joined:** Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:26 am **Posts:** 344

Because.....why?
Its not like someone could resculpt the size difference and pass it off as an "authentic" cast.

Vadermonkey · **Joined:** Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:29 am **Posts:** 689

Wasn't asking for you to give it to me.... :wink:

But thats Ok.

SithLord · **Joined:** Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:12 am **Posts:** 3115

yes they could....and they do

GINO · **Posted:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:39 am

Are you referring to SPFX's claim to having an authentic cast faceplate? The one that's being shown off in the vader gallery?

Fatherless One · **Posted:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:59 am

SithLord wrote:

Also note if you can that the right cheek on mine...just on the outside edge...is more horizontal than on any other mask later on...that's because the cheeks were originally more symmetrical but some sagging occured...a small amount but it's there if you look carefully.

I wish I could see what you can see?

HAL9000 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:13 am

SithLord wrote:

HAL9000 wrote:

Was that woman's name Elizabeth by any chance?

Yes. You have any leads?

None....it's a dead trail unfortunately. I've asked everyone I've met who worked in any creative capacity on ANH about this mysterious Elizabeth because it was also a name that was bandied around to me about a dome (not facemask!) I was offered about 2 years ago. The only name that is near is obviously Liz Moore - who sadly died in a car accident after ANH.

I think it is too easy for someone to pull a name out of the air and say my best friends next door neighbour's cat knows a guy who...

That said, there were definitely extra pulls made from the ANH mold - mostly by crew who knew what they were doing with molds. Brian will know about this. As has been pointed out - if any time had passed since the molds creation - let's say 3/4 months (the production time of the film) - then these could be smaller casts without any of the destinguishing features of the screen mask.

I would estimate that, excluding the screen mask, there would be at least 5 or 6 further
'unauthorized pulls'. Again, these would likely be imperfect as they may well have been rushed.

Also, they would probably be missing the cutout for the top strap.

vadermania · **Posted:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:42 am

HAL9000 wrote:

That said, there were definitely extra pulls made from the ANH mold - mostly by crew who knew what they were doing with molds. Brian will know about this.

...

I would estimate that, excluding the screen mask, there would be at least 5 or 6 further 'unauthorized pulls'. Again, these would likely be imperfect as they may well have been rushed.

Also, they would probably be missing the cutout for the top strap.

I also think that there is a fair number of "unregistered" extra pulls in existence. I vaguely remember a story of a crew member from ANH who used unfinished Stormy lids and other helmets plus a Vader dome as flower pots in his garden...

Darth Niob · **Posted:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:54 am

Sakrileg!!! :eek

CSMacLaren · **Posted:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:07 pm

GINO wrote:

That's funny you mention that Mac, because I believe you and Sithlord have more in common than any of the people on these forums. And I think most of us know why. Interpret that however you want.

The reason that I keep dismissing the whole size issue is this.
From the same mold, a fiberglass casting can vary a great deal. There are a lot of factors that contribute to size differential.
- The room temperature of the area in which the casting is made.
- The amount of catalyst used in the polyester resin.
- How long the piece is left in the mold after laying up

These contributing factors can cause what I consider major differences (up to an 1/8" or so, and even more so on really large pieces).
Based on the way measurements are presented here, some would say items coming from the same mold are actually different in generation when that is absurd.
When there is that much room for size discrepancy on items from the same mold, how can you possibly use that as an accurate measure of what came first, second, etc..
The method is flawed and should not be used at all in determining anything in regard to pedigree.

"This X is .2mm longer than that X, so it must be an earlier generation."
You're fooling yourself if you believe that.

Using measurements for this type of purpose is due to some needing the false sense of comfort and by the need to be able to look at this in black and white terms.
It would be so much simpler if we could look at measurements and draw hardcore solid determinations from them.
We simply can't.

So what we have here are some using a sampling of info to try to either praise or damn pieces that they are either financially or emotionally invested in.

The truth is obscured by all the noise of nonsensical photo comparisons, overlays, and measurement squabbles.

So you feel that of all the helmets cast for ESB that even though they were from the same mold that each is going to vary in size?

JRX · **Posted:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:10 pm

CSMacLaren wrote:

So you feel that of all the helmets cast for ESB that even though they were from the same mold that each is going to vary in size?

Mac, take your time and re-read a few pages back again ... the size
variations (in VERY short) also have to do with temperatures and so on ...

... fine ... so we can blame the weather again ... :lol

CSMacLaren · **Posted:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:21 pm

JRX wrote:

CSMacLaren wrote:

So you feel that of all the helmets cast for ESB that even though they were from the same mold that each is going to vary in size?

Mac, take your time and re-read a few pages back again ... the size
variations (in VERY short) also have to do with temperatures and so on ...

... fine ... so we can blame the weather again ... :lol

If we're talking an extremely small variance, then I find the statement plausible. If we're talking a greater variance within the same batch of fiberglass helmets, then it would be nice to see if there was data supporting that. The question is how much difference is there among helmets of the same batch versus helmets that are a generation apart.

SithLord · **Joined:** Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:12 am **Posts:** 3115

Fatherless One wrote:

SithLord wrote:

Also note if you can that the right cheek on mine...just on the outside edge...is more horizontal than on any other mask later on...that's because the cheeks were originally more symmetrical but some sagging occured...a small amount but it's there if you look carefully.

I wish I could see what you can see?

Here...

SithLord · **Joined:** Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:12 am **Posts:** 3115

AnsonJames wrote:

I

I've looked very closely at the tubes on the VP -I think they're very ANH like, bumps and all.
They would be the same as the TM even if the VP is possibly a generation down they're from the same source ultimately.
They certainly haven't be worked on.

I did a comparison of the VP tubes and the ROTJ tubes....there is a distinct curvature that is shared by both but not on the Paul Allen ESB or screen ANH. They are not accurate on the side of the mouth where they merge...they've been cleaned up there but I don't know if by the owner of the VP and it's just a coincidence it looks ROTJ. I'll try to illustrate sometime after work if I have time.

VP Helmet comparisons

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