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 Post subject: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 69
Hi all.I have read and read and read about what is the best Vader helmet and I am realy confused.I am not a Vader expert but I consider myself a purist collector,I need to know what is the best ANH,ESB and ROTJ Vader helmet.

When I say best I mean with a clear original lineage,not altered(EFx),recast of a recast of a recast,etc.

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:56 pm
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Location: Colorado/USA
This is really a baited question, and sure to start a few heated discussions. It is safe to say that Rick Baker was one of the first to recast a Vader helmet. But if you are looking at finding the very best castings ever produced I would suggest popping in a DVD and seeing them for yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Well, we all have our opinions, but based on your criteria:

ANH: SL ANH (1 generation down from the original ANH, from the Rick Baker mold)
ESB: TM ESB (an original production helmet, although not screen used, came from the ESB production)
ROTJ: GH ROTJ (not sure of generation but from what I gather perhaps 1 or 2 down from an original ROTJ)

The TM ROTJ is very nice as well, but it is a modified ESB so that doesn't really fall into your criteria.

In fairness to the eFX, I wouldn't call it "altered" per se, just cleaned up. It has the same lineage as the SL ANH so it is on pretty much equal footing lineage-wise, just that the master was taken from the mold later in its lifespan.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:21 am
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Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
It's certainly a very contentious question and really one that can only best be answered within the context of whatever your personal standards are. Darthvaderv has really said it best that no matter which casting you are looking at there is going to be a degree of compromise somewhere. There isn't "one" particular casting that is going to be 100% perfect for any version. I'm feeling adventurous so I'm going to go out on a limb and call it the way I see it.


ANH: Helmets from the Rick Baker mold, which as we know is a production mold pulled from the screen helmet, are the only helmets in circulation which have a concrete unquestionable lineage directly to the screen used ANH helmet. There are other helmets out there that may have some connection, possibly further down the timeline, but that is where the heated debates begin. With that in mind your only option for a Rick Baker/ILM helmet, apart from efx, is the SithLord helmet. The worst compromise you automatically get with the Rick Baker mold is that when Baker pulled the mold he filled in the undercuts along the sides of the tusk tubes, which frustrates me to no end, so there is a built-in inaccuracy on that feature. There are arguments about issues with geometry on certain areaes of the SL helmets which you have no doubt read. I don't see those as being any greater or lesser than the geometrical distortions in the efx helmet it's just these are unique to the SL--which again is going to be the case with every single helmet you come across. In my opinion the SL is the overall winner because it has all the crispness and razor sharp edges that the screen helmet has. On top of that you get all the glorious scratches, dents, paint drips--the battle scars if you will--of production. There are other pros, and I'm sure people have other cons, but that is the Cliff notes version as I see it.

Now, taking my previous opinion as just that--my opinion--I am all about the ANH Helmet and am not as interested in the other versions even though I have some variation of them in my collection.

ESB: The TM is really the best in town on this version of the helmet. The TM dome is the only one that has the most complete features and geometry of the ESB. The original TM faceplate exhibits traits consistent with both late ANH production and early ESB but doesn't have the filleting on the tubes. This is the helmet you typically see listed as the TM ANH. There is a lot to love about this casting--sharpness, good geometry, great details but it is undersized which is a common complaint with Star Wars helmets. There is a TM casting that removed the ANH features and cleaned it up to be consistent with ESB. This is the "best" version of the ESB helmet in my opinion and the one that I am using for both my Hero and Stunt ESB helmets. I am not personally aware of an ESB related helmet that has closer lineage so if there is another out there I am not in the loop.

ROTJ: This is a tough one for me because in my opinion, apart from the "Reveal" helmet, the ROTJ is a major step backward with the design and I don't care for it at all. I will certainly defer to others more invested in this version. Again there is a TM casting that was modified to resemble the ROTJ helmet but this is a modified ESB casting (rather like the original in that sense) so that may take it down a notch. A lot of people like the Ghost Host ROTJ which has a clearer lineage I think so that may be your first choice. I've been collecting greeblies for the better part of a decade now to do a build up of a Reveal Helmet and my latest plan is to use a TM based faceplate for mine. That may or may not change by the time I have finished gathering the rest of what I need.


That's my 3 Galactic Credits so take them for what they are worth.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:56 pm
Posts: 1206
Location: Germany
Hey why you guys always forget the RotS helmet :blah .
Ok, ok ...i know why. :lol
For RotS... the MR RotS helmet, comes from the production used hero helmet.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:09 pm
Posts: 122
SithLord wrote:

The TM ROTJ is very nice as well, but it is a modified ESB so that doesn't really fall into your criteria.


dcarty wrote:
...TM casting that was modified to resemble the ROTJ helmet but this is a modified ESB casting (rather like the original in that sense) so that may take it down a notch.
Dave


Thing is that if the ROTJ is a modified ESB (whether they are actual modified ESB's or copies of a modified ESB or modified ESB copies :) ), in many ways that puts the TM ROTJ in a better place than the GH because it also comes from ESB. But then it doesn't have the lineage to the actual ROTJs like the GH. In my mind its a difficult call between the two.

Nick


Last edited by Albatrossone on Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Yeah exactly, Nick. To my mind the Ghost Host wins out, from an authenticity standpoint, by virtue of the fact that it has the actual production modifications already in it rather than the best approximation that was able to be made to the TM. This is a classic example of "this helmet is better for these reasons but this one is better for other reasons".


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Certainly there are other criteria, as for example the TM ROTJ does in some ways look better than the GH ROTJ, as it was made to look that way. But in terms of lineage and in terms of a complete helmet, there really isn't that much to choose from. We could go into the helmets in private hands related to the ANH/ESB tours, but those are either cleaned up or too finished to be able to tell if they would have the same details.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 69
Thanks to all for this info.I have a new vision now.

My next question is,where can I buy an ANH SL and ESB TM helmet?.

I can consider myself a lucky man because I have a GH ROTJ helmet.I have a SPFX ANH and ESB that I´ll sell to buy the SL and TM.

Any opinion about the 20Th C helmet?

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:09 pm
Posts: 122
The best answer I ever saw to this question was one Darth Stone once gave - being in the right place at the right time with a large fistful of money!


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:53 pm 
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Biker wrote:
Thanks to all for this info.I have a new vision now.

My next question is,where can I buy an ANH SL and ESB TM helmet?.

I can consider myself a lucky man because I have a GH ROTJ helmet.I have a SPFX ANH and ESB that I´ll sell to buy the SL and TM.

Any opinion about the 20Th C helmet?

Thanks again.



I like the 20th C but it is a mix of an ESB mask and ROTJ helmet. It is also in a smaller size category than the earlier helmets since it is probably more than a couple of generations down from an original ESB.

The TM ESB (or ANH or ROTJ) helmet is only available if one were to come up for sale, but that would be unlikely since the helmets are much sought after. Very few TM ESBs were offered and just to a select few. The same is true for the SL ANH, although even fewer copies exist. I would be the only person you could get an SL ANH from. Also, nobody would in their right mind trade an SL ANH or TM ESB for an SPFX helmet, or I would think for even ten SPFX helmets. The SPFX helmets are reworked recasts of GH ANH and ROTJ helmets, and therefore many generations down from any original, and therefore not really of value to serious collectors.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:00 pm 
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Dave do you find the TM to be undersized? I wouldn't say that it is. It is certainly in the same size category shared by the SL/TD, at least overall. I consider helmets like the VP/20thC/SPFX to be undersized.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:22 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 69
Thanks again.

SithLord PM sent.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:21 am
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Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
SithLord wrote:
Dave do you find the TM to be undersized? I wouldn't say that it is. It is certainly in the same size category shared by the SL/TD, at least overall. I consider helmets like the VP/20thC/SPFX to be undersized.


Taken from that point of view then no I would not say the TM is undersized.


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 Post subject: Re: THE BEST VADER HELMET.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:00 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:26 am
Posts: 250
SithLord wrote:
nobody would in their right mind trade an SL ANH or TM ESB for an SPFX helmet, or I would think for even ten SPFX helmets. The SPFX helmets are reworked recasts of GH ANH and ROTJ helmets, and therefore many generations down from any original, and therefore not really of value to serious collectors.


sithlord speaks the truth. and not to mention the guy who makes the SPFX has a bad reputation in the prop community and has done some pretty questionable things. (things i have experienced first hand :angry4). another reason why no one in their right mind would even want one in their collection. knowing what the spfx is and what and who it represents.

as far as the best Vader helmet. SL ANH hands down. like dcarty, i too am all about the ANH version. thats really the one and only definitive Vader helmet in my eyes. its really the only helmet ill ever need.
after all. isnt the ANH helmet the one that all the others derived from?


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