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 Post subject: My SPFX rework project
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:20 pm
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Hi all thanks to NHM helping me I wont be doing anything with my spfx helmet
I will now try to sculpt my very own vader helmet from ANH to ESB to ROTJ


I want to acurize the facial features the best I can to the production used props

so for this I kindly ask any details
in regards to the following
ANH center dome strip withe and height
ESB and ROTJ Center strip dimensions

the ANH chin vent size
ESB chin vent size
ROTJ chin vent size

I have gained a lot of info from the den to help me already and the RPF

but any other inputs most welcome will upload pics of my progress soon probably beginning of new year
but hope to gain as much finer detail info as possible before hand so I may be ready to get going as soon as I have the helmet in my hands

Thanks for any and all help :salut


Last edited by Darth Africanus on Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My SPFX rework project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:23 pm 
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Hi, recasting is frowned upon and will get you kicked out of most forums, this included, even just for personal use, so please do not do this.

If you want to attempt something like this, you should try and sculpt your own instead. It will give you loads of experience and really show you the intricacies of the Vader helmet sculpt, which you won't get just by recasting.


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 Post subject: Re: My SPFX rework project
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:20 pm 
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No Humor Man wrote:
Hi, recasting is frowned upon and will get you kicked out of most forums, this included, even just for personal use, so please do not do this.

If you want to attempt something like this, you should try and sculpt your own instead. It will give you loads of experience and really show you the intricacies of the Vader helmet sculpt, which you won't get just by recasting.


NHM thank you for being the first person to reply in a meaningful and supportive manner on all the forums I have posted

I appreciated it so much ! I had this discussion on the SLD as i am aware recasting is a no no
by no means is it my goal to recast and nor do I want to be branded as one
I was just misinformed that the community sort of only sees recasting and selling for monetary gain as a no no
and the impression I understood recasting for a work base and not reselling was sort of ok

But I clearly see that no matter what recasting is a no no it was not my intention to be cast in a bad light
hence my honesty

Awesome then I will rather try sculpting by using reference photos and my helmets I have as reference

But I would still like as much help as possible from the community and measurements ass accurate as possible
if anybody is willing to share as my guesstimating from reference photos is not so good :salut


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 Post subject: Re: My SPFX rework project
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:01 am 
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Well, the stance on recasting is different from forum to forum. Some don't care, while others care, but are more loose with how they interpret recasting, others are more strict. Unlike in the model kit community where the line is pretty clear, it can be more fluid in the prop community as some kinds of recasting is less frowned upon than other kinds. An example: cast from production made pieces or from original molds are usually accepted, while it is not okay to recast casts made from that, even though they are both technically recasting. The first is accepted and protected by the community because they are risking a lot to bring casts to the community - risking damaging an original - whereas one simply recasting that maker doesn't risk anything, but simply makes it so that the original maker will no longer take the risk and make more stuff available. There are also sometimes when some feel it is okay to recast licensed products, but there is a hard line drawn if they recast a piece from an active license - though, them recasting can prevent a company from re-issuing the piece, or a new company buying the license and produce the piece, so again, not really a good option.

I know it can become complicated pretty quickly. The reason "for personal use" is also frowned upon is because of past occurrences where it didn't just stay "for personal use", but casts where sold to recuperate the costs from the recasting and because people wanted casts. It rarely just stays for personal use when this is done, so the stance at this forum is that we don't allow it.

Regarding measurements I think it will be difficult to get many from high end helmets, as there is still the mentality that that kind of information can be misused. However, the eFX helmets are pretty good helmets, cast from a mold that was made from the original screen used helmet, so would be a good basis to go with. If you could get measurements from one of those, I think you'd have a pretty accurate way to proceed. I don't have any helmets anymore, so can't really help out much, but if you start sculpting your own, I can try and guide you as best as I can. Though I am a member of other forums I don't really post there much and mostly only reply on posts made here.


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 Post subject: Re: My SPFX rework project
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:06 pm 
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No Humor Man wrote:
Well, the stance on recasting is different from forum to forum. Some don't care, while others care, but are more loose with how they interpret recasting, others are more strict. Unlike in the model kit community where the line is pretty clear, it can be more fluid in the prop community as some kinds of recasting is less frowned upon than other kinds. An example: cast from production made pieces or from original molds are usually accepted, while it is not okay to recast casts made from that, even though they are both technically recasting. The first is accepted and protected by the community because they are risking a lot to bring casts to the community - risking damaging an original - whereas one simply recasting that maker doesn't risk anything, but simply makes it so that the original maker will no longer take the risk and make more stuff available. There are also sometimes when some feel it is okay to recast licensed products, but there is a hard line drawn if they recast a piece from an active license - though, them recasting can prevent a company from re-issuing the piece, or a new company buying the license and produce the piece, so again, not really a good option.

I know it can become complicated pretty quickly. The reason "for personal use" is also frowned upon is because of past occurrences where it didn't just stay "for personal use", but casts where sold to recuperate the costs from the recasting and because people wanted casts. It rarely just stays for personal use when this is done, so the stance at this forum is that we don't allow it.

Regarding measurements I think it will be difficult to get many from high end helmets, as there is still the mentality that that kind of information can be misused. However, the eFX helmets are pretty good helmets, cast from a mold that was made from the original screen used helmet, so would be a good basis to go with. If you could get measurements from one of those, I think you'd have a pretty accurate way to proceed. I don't have any helmets anymore, so can't really help out much, but if you start sculpting your own, I can try and guide you as best as I can. Though I am a member of other forums I don't really post there much and mostly only reply on posts made here.


Thanks NHM I totally understand and agree one might be tempted to use the personal use molds to make money unfortunately people are people me included and we all are flawed like it or not
but I would rather hold to the code/trust of the community to not do anything that might get me black listed or thrown in the same basket as SPFX (Phill) in the first place

would it be considered ok to at least use the the helmet as a rough shape guide and then work my own clay work from there? but im sure i can make my own armature
and work at it till I get what I want

already found a place in south Africa that supplies sculpting based clay so come new year I will be ready to begin my project

Awesome will find out about getting efx dimensions know afew guys that have efx helmets .Yes I agree that people reluctantly share the info but also rightly so as i saw all the threads with the fighting and recasting people stealing info so if I had a TM I would also never share anything unless I really knew the people im sharing info with.but also I understand it might discourage or alienate others who feel that it's like a secret Illuminati community or something .Awesome all the guidens and help will be most welcome and appreciated thanks man !


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 Post subject: Re: My SPFX rework project
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:59 am 
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Frankly, I don't seeing taking measurements off an existing helmet and using those to sculpt your own. Just always be mindful of your sources and also not trust the measurements on some casts completely, as there is shrinkage and warping from cast to cast. I would think the eFX is a pretty good basis for the ANH look at least. The ESB onwards have a bit more curve to their faces than the ANH, which could be a result from the original UK molding of the ANH face plate for ESB. The eFX comes from a US mold made by Rick Baker after filming of ANH of the same screen used helmet as the UK mold to be used to create tour helmets - one of those tour helmets was even seen at the end of RotJ when Vader was burned.

The shrinkage that has happened on some of the casts in fandom is a shrinkage of the face, which is why I suggest the eFX as a good basis to scale measurements up to, to match that more.

In order to save on sculpting material it is probably a good idea to create a kind of internal structure of disposable materials, such as papier mache, placed on a board with the insides perhaps filled with sand, so you don't waste too much clay when sculpting the face mask and dome. I'm sure there might be other or better ways to do this, but it was what I could think of at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: My SPFX rework project
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:18 am 
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Posts: 46
No Humor Man wrote:
Frankly, I don't seeing taking measurements off an existing helmet and using those to sculpt your own. Just always be mindful of your sources and also not trust the measurements on some casts completely, as there is shrinkage and warping from cast to cast. I would think the eFX is a pretty good basis for the ANH look at least. The ESB onwards have a bit more curve to their faces than the ANH, which could be a result from the original UK molding of the ANH face plate for ESB. The eFX comes from a US mold made by Rick Baker after filming of ANH of the same screen used helmet as the UK mold to be used to create tour helmets - one of those tour helmets was even seen at the end of RotJ when Vader was burned.

The shrinkage that has happened on some of the casts in fandom is a shrinkage of the face, which is why I suggest the eFX as a good basis to scale measurements up to, to match that more.

In order to save on sculpting material it is probably a good idea to create a kind of internal structure of disposable materials, such as papier mache, placed on a board with the insides perhaps filled with sand, so you don't waste too much clay when sculpting the face mask and dome. I'm sure there might be other or better ways to do this, but it was what I could think of at the moment.


Long have I waited finnaly have me spfx in hand it looks decent to my eye i can clearly see it's not even close
to an authentic cast so I decided to try and just modd my inhand helmet for now and using the SPFX and my JMC and photos
perhaps i can sculpt a decent helmet

the SPFX is some what larger than my JMC by a bit it was very striking to me to see such a size diffrence
will use the EFX for refrence if I can get hold of info on the helmet
First of looking for how wide the dome skirt is on the efx


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