Okay, let's imagine that we are detectives. We have been charged
with tracking down, or at least finding out what happened to
the original ANH vader suit. By which I mean we have to take into
account all 'witness' statements, documented evidence, rumours,
accusations about all the pieces of the costume and however many
duplicate pieces there were. (i.e. masks).

So...where do we start? It's over thirty years since the 'crime' took place.
I thought this would be a good place to list what we know or what we have heard.
No matter how ridiculous. Maybe one persons fragment of info will link
up with someone else's previously unexplained info.
That's how investigations work.

So i'll start...

From my understanding there were two hero masks finished for ANH. The main one ended
was shipped from London to L.A. after principal photography for pick ups.
From there it became the tour suit that Kermit Eller wore.
Now there are suggestions that this suit was stolen from Don Post or was part of some
shipment sting that when it was due to go back to LFL someone on the inside obviously had
someone else pose as a courier and they 'collected' it -

I guess the other ANH mask in the LFL archive is one of the others out of the first mould.

I remember that there was a set of robes and cape that went to auction that was allegedly
ANH.

I have heard the following 'rumours'...

1. George Lucas does have the ANH suit in storage.
2. A member of a 70's rock group has it.
3. Gary Kurtz has the dome.
4. The mask was destroyed in transit.

Look forward to hearing some of the rest of the precinct...

Great idea Hal

There's also the Elstree Props photo of the face mask on the floor that they say is the original, that's another line of enquiry to be followed up.

As I understand just from reading the forums there must have been at least 4 originals of the same type made:

A big clue to them coming from the same first batch being that they all originaly had the 2 peice metal clip dome mounting system, each clip being attached with 4 screws.

1. The Funeral Helmet ( has the metal clips)

2. The movie poster helmet that Jez recently found ( has the metal clips)

3 Helmet in the LFL Achive original anh style with metal clips - Vadamania saw this one in the archive, right thomas?

4. The screen used anh helmet yes this had the 3 tabs added later but it originaly had the 2 metal clips the 4 screw holes can be seen on copies such as 20th century and better like TM VP etc.

Did I miss any are there anymore.

But for No. 4 we don't know the location! where is the screen used, we do know that it was around for a mold to be made of it for ESB so LFL still had it right, cant believe they would have let it disapear. ( didnt gino say he knew who had it?)

Great thread HAL I can see this is going to be a good one!!!

CHeers

JR

If Norman (Elstree Props) had the original why did he plague me to say I had the original (ie lie). Surely he would have just wanted me just to validate it if he had it in his possession? I have seen the mask in the photo in person and it is not original. I also know the person that has relatively recently made 'originals' for Elstree props.

Brian, if you don't mind me asking, what makes you think it's not original?

Naively I told them what was wrong with the helmet and what needed to be changed and hey presto those details were added.
There are details on the original that only I know about and cannot divulge for obvious reasons and they are not on the Elstree mask.
Having said that it is quite a decent mask.

You can tell me..........No one is reading these posts anyway...

Just kidding....thanks for answering Brian.

The "ANH" robes that were auctioned are ESB robes.

The interlocking flushmount holes do not line up with the holes on the castings mentioned.

Zuka Zamamee wrote this some months ago;


edit:corrected mispelling members sceen name.

PI SithLord reporting for duty



So two hero masks or complete helmets? Is the second one being finished based on Brian's account?



Ya as someone mentioned, Zuka pointed out that story isn't true.



But no one has seen an original ANH mask or helmet at the archives so what do you base that on?



1. I doubt it otherwise we wouldn't see the mask at Elstree.
2. Based on what, the Corbis photos? That can't be true.
3. Maybe he has an ESB dome, but if this is just a rumor based on what Jason Joiner might claim, we all know how to what extent we can believe him.
4. Transit to where? It made it to the USA and Kermit Eller wore it for the tour.

My understanding is three or four, no more than that. But Brian can correct me if I am wrong.



Well just keep in mind that the first three helmets are likely from the LFL mold, not the original production mold.

But the four center holes suggest two tabs used and then perhaps they went to three tabs. There are four larger holes used for the metal clips and what we can assume are six small holes (four of them drilled larger to mount the metal clips), with two large holes in unique positions, for a total of eight holes on the MP mask. I didn't see the Pyre helmet in person, does anyone have clear photos of those clips? The six hole pattern may match the pattern on the screen mask, but the four hole pattern of the clip arrangement does not. It is reasonable to assume the clips were tried first; I forget if Brian confirmed that or not?



We can only assume that a mold of it was made for ESB. But it's a good assumption since Kermit had it in hand in 1979.

If Gino says he knows who has the original screen ANH helmet, and he has reference material of it, and knowing how particular he is about accuracy, then that knowledge would be reflected in his ANH helmet that he shows off, but that helmet isn't authentic.

Brian why are you sure only 2 were made when more than 2 exist with the original 2 peice metal clip mounting system and with the widows peak( so they must have come from the same mold as the screen used), if more were made later surely they would have either the 3 tab system or the ring system?

Sith Lord, when you refer to LFL mold do you mean the mold that was used to create the ESB helmets?

If you are then surely these helmets are from the production mold, they apear to be clean ontop (exept for the clips being added) with no sign of the tab formations found on the helmets produced from the mold that made the ESB batch.

This being the case, why would LFL make a mold of a clean pull from the production mold when they already have a production mold to make casts from, I think all the helmets I listed were from the production mold.

Thanks for joining us again, Brian.

Just so that we can be clear which mask you mean, the mask in the photos discovered at Elstree by TM show many telling features that at least to me indicate that it's the original screen-used mask. The mask that Paul said he had that was a fourth pull looks nothing like the original. Here is a side-by-side comparison of what I think is the original mask photographed at Elstree (as you said before that carpet would have been laid within the past 5 years???) next to the claimed original fourth pull Paul has or had, which is patently not original. I hope the person who let me have the photos of the Harrison helmet doesn't mind that I post them here, my apologies if that is the case, but it's well established now that it's not an original.



So I just wanted to clarify Brian if you saw the mask on the left in person or the mask on the right?

The Paul Harrison mask, part of a helmet, is basically like a Don Post studios mask similar to the Ghosthost as shown below...



I would stake my entire reputation on what I think that the mask in the Elstree photo is indeed the original screen mask. Here were comparisons I did before that led me in part to believe that...





Since then I've also found indiction that this mask in the Elstree photo appears also to be the template for the ILM mold.

But, there is no indication that Paul Harrison still has this mask or even owned it. But it's clear that it was at Elstree at some point after the ANH production. That's my firm belief at this point.

I mean the mold made of the original screen ANH helmet shortly after the production (or during pickups if that is indeed the case). The mold made to create the ESB helmets would be a different mold taken of either the screen helmet or a copy of the screen helmet...but I don't know.

We only know that the MP mask is clean on top, but it's got thick paint and the six hole pattern I mentioned may match the corresponding hole locations on the screen mask. But being clean on top does not by default support that a mask came from the original ANH production mold...

LFL at the time of ESB did not have the original ANH mold. The helmets in your list 1-3 would have come presumably from the ILM mold made of the original ANH helmet...they were made later on after the ANH production, so they could not have come from the original ANH production mold because, and again correct me if I am wrong Brian, but the original mold was thrown away after the production and didn't make it to the USA.

(Thanks for your reply regarding Elstree, Brian).

In my view if Kermit had the original costume, and delivered it safely back to Lucasfilm, then it must be that either; Lucasfilm still has it, they got rid of it by mistake or on purpose, or possibly the parts have been refurbished and recycled into other Vader costume parts? (then perhaps there's fire or theft but I'm sure news of that would have trickled out by now).

If the suit components were reused, the costume could by now be spread out all over the place. I'm sure in the early years Lucasfilm would not have been as sentimental as us about it, and if re-using bits of the suit for other purposes was going to be easier or cheaper for them than making more parts from scratch, they'd have done it I'm sure.


Stuff in their possession has been lost in storage before, (although perhaps not for 30 years). Don Bies found the Jedi Reveal prop in the bottom of a crate that was on it's way to get junked if I remember correctly. However I think if the ANH suit had been lying forgotten about in a mis-labelled crate growing mould somewhere it would have been found by now. Who knows, perhaps George owns it himself these days?


Jeremy