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 Post subject: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:34 pm 
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Let's list everything that has been conclusively verified about the ANH Vader helmets.

Maybe Brian could chime in when he comes back, not only can we verify our facts but ask about a few things we're unsure of.

I'm going to start the ball rolling....

We know for sure that three helmets were made for ANH.
Two of these were for screen use whilst the other was used to test dome mount mechanisms.

We know the original helmet sculpt was clay, a plaster copy was made from the sculpt for refining.

We know the faceplate originally had a back and front section.

Over to you, folks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:46 pm 
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Location: england
The tubes on the faceplate were sculpted,moulded and cast as seen on screen.

They were never cut in the clay, plaster or fibreglass for the 2 screen masks.

The tubes were brought forward at the clay stage after discussion with John Barry. There was no indication or line in the clay caused by this change so it did not appear in the clay,plaster or the fibreglass screen mask.

They were only cut on the third mask at the fibre glass stage used by special effects.

The tubes were not two roles of clay placed on the sides - they were gradually built up from small roles of clay.

The strip across the top of the helmet was carved into the clay - looking at the screen helmet you will see that the line of the helmet from the front is level with the strip and it curves into the bottom edge of the strip.

The TD mask is linked back to the ANH mask but through the 3rd helmet and could not possibly be a screen used mask or moulded from one due to the short tusks. It can't be the 3rd helmet itself because the tabs have been cast in fibreglass which means that the 3rd helmet had to have been moulded and the TD must have come from that mould.

Brian


Last edited by vaderman on Sat May 17, 2008 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:13 am 
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Thanks Brian,

We've got the first part of verified and indisputable facts about the ANH Vader.

Here's a couple more;

The Darth Vader armour was sculpted on the figure of Dave Prowse to the neck line. The mask/helmet was not in place at the time.
no concept heads were sculpted just the one screen helmet.


The helmets would all differ as no casting would be exactly the same due to the fact that the rubber has to be placed back into the case and it will never sit into the case exactly the same each time. Also in the laying up of the gel coat you can have air bubbles appear in different areas which are filled and rubbed down. These are extremely subtle differences but nevertheless are there.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:22 am 
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Correct


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:28 am 
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Brian,

Could I ask if the moulds were silicone or Vynamould?

Cheers,

Anson


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:33 am 
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I remember the moulds as being silicone with fibreglass jackets.

Brian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:38 am 
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Thanks Brian,

Another one for the confirmed list!

Here's another;


The clay used was 'buff body' clay - with or without 'grog' according to the detail you needed to put into the sculpt. Without grog is for the more detailed sculpting.

Come on guys!
Some of you must have some facts not listed already.


Last edited by AnsonJames on Sat May 17, 2008 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 2:13 am 
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Good thread Anson. I apologize if some of this has already been discussed, but no harm in clarifying them once again in a "Fact" thread.

From what I understand the chest armor and shoulder bells were sculpted on the Prowse body cast, but the bells were separate from the chest armor, meaning that it wasn't one continuous armor with the bells later cut away from the chest portion after casting. I believe Brian said there was about an inch gap between the edge of the armor and bells when he sculpted them. Brian, am I correct on that?

I also have a question about the bells. Brian you did sculpt two shoulder bells correct? The reason I ask is that the chest armors that are out there have one shoulder bell for each side that are identical, but technically speaking they should be slightly different from each other, correct?

Also just to reiterate, the neck opening of the armor has nothing to do with the neckline or neck width of the faceplate because they were sculpted independently of each other. So the neckline of the faceplate does not have to fit like a glove with that of the armor opening. Again for clarification, am I correct Brian?

*I realize this is a fact thread on the helmet, but I thought it would be ok to add questions about the armor and possibly even the shins. Is it a good idea to condense it all in one thread, if that's ok with you Anson?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:05 am 
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Thanks for answering our questions, and humouring us, I feel like a young boy again when I get to talk Vader :)

What was used to create the grooves below eyes (on top of the cheeks), we've described them as thumbnail imprints for so long.

Why does the front edge of one cheek rise up and the other curve downwards? And at the time did you notice?

Kind of the same question as above, where the cheek lines go towards the rear of the face mask and meet at the lower edges of the eye sockets, one side is higher than the other, did you notice this once you'd completed the sculpt, and if so were you tempted to correct this? Did anyone else notice this ? Same question regarding the mouth droop.

And lastly one of the most mysterious parts we've wanted the answer to (I know this wasn't your area), what the hell is the mounting ring used on some of the facemasks for ESB and ROTJ?
If you don't know would you be able to find out for us through your many prop-maker contacts , this has been the subject of some debate for years.

Thanks in advance, and great thread :)

Alan.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 11:30 am 
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Alan... to make things easier - also for newbies who are not so well-versed in the details - how about adding pictures showing the areas and pieces you want answers to?

Oh, this goes for all... text is one thing... a picture is so much more; as there are so many details and so much room for misinterpretations and confusion.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:57 pm 
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Hello all,

I've received a PM from Brian.

He's let me know that it's not 100% that the ANH helmets were cast using black gelcoat, I've removed that particular piece of info from the thread -
Just the facts!

Anson


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:25 pm 
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GREAT THREAD! Real meat and potatos. :cool:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:45 pm 
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Darth Karo wrote:
Good thread Anson. I apologize if some of this has already been discussed, but no harm in clarifying them once again in a "Fact" thread.

From what I understand the chest armor and shoulder bells were sculpted on the Prowse body cast, but the bells were separate from the chest armor, meaning that it wasn't one continuous armor with the bells later cut away from the chest portion after casting. I believe Brian said there was about an inch gap between the edge of the armor and bells when he sculpted them. Brian, am I correct on that?

I also have a question about the bells. Brian you did sculpt two shoulder bells correct? The reason I ask is that the chest armors that are out there have one shoulder bell for each side that are identical, but technically speaking they should be slightly different from each other, correct?

Also just to reiterate, the neck opening of the armor has nothing to do with the neckline or neck width of the faceplate because they were sculpted independently of each other. So the neckline of the faceplate does not have to fit like a glove with that of the armor opening. Again for clarification, am I correct Brian?

*I realize this is a fact thread on the helmet, but I thought it would be ok to add questions about the armor and possibly even the shins. Is it a good idea to condense it all in one thread, if that's ok with you Anson?


Hi DK,

The gap between the armour and the shoulder bells was between 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch ( I can't be exact on that one)

The shoulder bells were handed ( one left and one right).

Yes you're correct the helmet and armour were sculpted independently of each other. I did not sculpt the armour with the mask in place but I would be surprised if I did not put the mask in place to mark the line on the neck.

Brian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:58 pm 
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Hi Fatherless One,

The grooves under the eyes (tear ducts) were made with a small wooden modelling tool.

I do have more in my tool box than a thumb :lol The only thing my thumb fits perfectly is the indentation for the nose.

I do not know how and why the mounting ring was used. If in the future I'm able to find out I will certainly inform you.

Brian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:07 pm 
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Thanks for the clarification Brian.


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