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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:56 am
Posts: 218
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
There is clearly a double standard here without a doubt.

I don't have a dog in this fight as I have dealt with both Gino & Matt and had no proplems with either, but it is clear that there is a "pile on Gino fest" going on. True he brings a lot of this on himself, but I can also see why he would be frustrated into acting as he does. I can see Matt's frustration as well but he seems to be offered more slack for what ever reason. I think it would be best to nip all these type threads in the bud so there won't have to be ANY bannings. Mods get to work and lets be fierce in the editing otherwise this forum will no doubt turn into a whirling eddy of shit and I won't want to participate in that, I've already dipped my toe in the muck as much as I care to and it stinks.


BTW I won't comment on any possible replys (one way or the other) to my post as I feel sick enough.


Doug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:38 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Essex UK
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Yes, I'm very aware this rule was implemented, and I also see TE being baited so that either he can be defaulted into getting banned, or that the moderators can be manipulated on a technicality to accomplish his banning.

So this was never about being fair. It's about getting TE banned, isn't it?

Let's be honest: none of this is "fair".


No that isn't correct this thread was dormant has been for a long time way before the rule was put in place.
Until TE signed up on a second account and opened up an attack on Gino.

All members were made aware of this rule Gino from what i see has made no personal attacks on any member including TE since this rule was put in place and if he has and i have missed it then yes action should be taken against him also.

Twice now i have seen in this thread Gino request action from the staff regarding these attacks and on both occasions it has been all but ignored.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:53 pm 
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Location: San Jose, CA
Defstartrooper wrote:
Quote:
Yes, I'm very aware this rule was implemented, and I also see TE being baited so that either he can be defaulted into getting banned, or that the moderators can be manipulated on a technicality to accomplish his banning.

So this was never about being fair. It's about getting TE banned, isn't it?

Let's be honest: none of this is "fair".


No that isn't correct this thread was dormant has been for a long time way before the rule was put in place.
Until TE signed up on a second account and opened up an attack on Gino.

All members were made aware of this rule Gino from what i see has made no personal attacks on any member including TE since this rule was put in place and if he has and i have missed it then yes action should be taken against him also.

Twice now i have seen in this thread Gino request action from the staff regarding these attacks and on both occasions it has been all but ignored.


Yes, but again, one-dimensionalizing the rule and using the public to put pressure on the Mods to interpret the rule in favor of one side without taking the historical context into account isn't going to make the mods any happier. So it's okay for GINO to speak his mind at the cost of another, exempt from retroactive action and therefore exempt from responsibility...

... and so long as you can see his lack of cussing and outright personal attacks isn't baiting TE then you can justify calling for a strict adherence to the rules while benefiting from the fact that the mods are kind enough not to enact that rule retroactively if they pleased?

Don't push their hand into crafting a rule that says, "any kind of manipulation of public opionion to advance a personal agenda and to influence moderator decisions would result in a permanent ban" getting passed, then enforced immediately.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
Posts: 10575
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Guys, this is a difficult situation, I'm sure. I don't think it's fair to say that there is any favoritism on either GINO or TE.

If you don't like the way the staff deals with things, then too bad for you, imo. Both GINO and TE have been baiting each other to get each other banned. If you think you can do better and figure out this mess, then I suggest you try dealing with this issue.

Neither of us are mods or admins, so don't try to act like one. If you don't like that, then maybe this is not the place for you. I'm sick and tired of this shit, just as much as you are... and I was a part of the staff when this crap started - and I admit that I kinda started it with the SFS thread that is still moved out of sight by the staff.

I think TE's responses are below standard, but I don't think he cares what I think. I think GINO's posts are often arrogant in some ways, but I also don't think he cares what I think. I myself am not the perfect person either and often gets carried away by rumors and don't worry as much as I should about the truth... and I'm often nasty to people.

The staff has really tried, from what I can see, to get this steered into a proper direction, but it isn't easy when we got two strong-minded individuals going head on. Banning one and the other wins the fight, same as with banning the other: banning both and both lose and people will complain how unfair it was for one or the other based on how they stand. Keeping both... and finally getting them to play nice and people will STILL complain about how unfair it is that one was one thing and the other not or wtf have you.

STFU and let the staff do their job and if you don't like it... go piss somewhere else.

Defstartrooper wrote:
Of course if someone replicates 1 single helmet with no alterations that would be the most accurate but as that has yet to be done he see's his as the most accurate yet.

Would only make it accurate to that one screen helmet and not any of the others.

Which is my whole point. How can anything be *the most screen accurate* when it can only be accurate to the helmet it was made from and not all the others? It doesn't make sense to me why anyone would get so bent out of shape about accuracy of assembly, sharpness and casting, as long as the original source is from an original.


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 Post subject: "edited due to new info"
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:26 am
Posts: 337
I would like to point out that Gino has been exceptionally polite and answered all questions posed to him by the people here with patience. Hard to do because many of the questions have been answered so, so many times before.

Matt, you are rarely polite and name call like we are back in 2nd grade.
I would like to hear your side of things without the Gino bashing. Keep it to emails and PMs like I know you do.

Matt, I have never yet heard you tell anyone where your new moulds come from. Nor have I seen the question asked.
I am asking here and now.
It will be easy to settle who has the better moulds if Gino is producing from the original (or second gen) moulds and you, due to a bunch of stuff, no longer have anything close to the original helmet moulds and are usings altered second or third gens.

Still, Gino never makes his stuff availible or affordable. Soo maybe if it is his which is the better helmet, who cares? Because who could ever get one? Braks says your helmet is the best Gino. Someday I'd like to see for myself.


Last edited by Midnight Trooper on Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:15 pm 
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I've received a suspension for comments not even in the same league as what has been put to me.

Since my suspension and the implementation of the new rule/warnign, I've abided, yet Matt seems to be allowed to be unleashed.
Now its been suggested that I be punished, again, because Matt can't seem to post without following the rules. Ban us both? WTF? There is not one instance since my return that I have disregarded the rules of this forum.

Forgive me, but what is so hard to figure out? Were you in my shoes, can you seriously not see how it comes off as total and complete BS?

Had I posted a rant equal to what Matt directed to me after coming back from my suspension, how long would it have taken the admin team to decide whether or not to ban me?

If I am missing something here admin, please PM me. Imagine how this looks from my perspective. It's been days, and the posts have been allowed to continue and stand without a word.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:26 am
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We must have posted at the same time Gino.

I say again;

Midnight Trooper wrote:
I would like to point out that Gino has been exceptionally polite and answered all questions posed to him by the people here with patience. Hard to do because many of the questions have been answered so, so many times before.

Matt, you are rarely polite and name call like we are back in 2nd grade.
I would like to hear your side of things without the Gino bashing. Keep it to emails and PMs like I know you do.


... or be suspended.

I dont see why everyone is ganging up on Gino here. Matt is the only offender of the rule in this thread.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
TE, I hate to say this, but you have more than one person how asking to please state your side but without the personal attacks. Anything you have to say that may be legitimate, provable, backed with evidence, etc. becomes overshadowed and overpowered by the personal attacks and name calling. Please strongly consider this in your next posts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:26 am
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edit


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:38 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Essex UK
Quote:
Yes, but again, one-dimensionalizing the rule and using the public to put pressure on the Mods to interpret the rule in favor of one side without taking the historical context into account isn't going to make the mods any happier. So it's okay for GINO to speak his mind at the cost of another, exempt from retroactive action and therefore exempt from responsibility...

... and so long as you can see his lack of cussing and outright personal attacks isn't baiting TE then you can justify calling for a strict adherence to the rules while benefiting from the fact that the mods are kind enough not to enact that rule retroactively if they pleased?

Don't push their hand into crafting a rule that says, "any kind of manipulation of public opionion to advance a personal agenda and to influence moderator decisions would result in a permanent ban" getting passed, then enforced immediately.


As far as i am concerned there is only one dimension to a rule it either applies or it is pointless.
What Gino has or hasn't said in the past is of no consequence if it were then it should have been dealt with at the time it is too late now to justify current attacks by TE on what was said in the past before this rule existed you cannot police the past only the present.
It is quite clear you are heavily biased toward TE for whatever reason i do not know nor care.
I do not particularly care for Gino or TE i am not clouded by personal opinions i am stating fact the rule is in place and has been broken simple as that.
Quote:
Don't push their hand into crafting a rule that says, "any kind of manipulation of public opionion to advance a personal agenda and to influence moderator decisions would result in a permanent ban" getting passed, then enforced immediately

I am not pushing to change opinion and by the way that particular little quote does seem like some kind of veiled attempt at telling me if i don't shut up i might find myself banned.
If you believe Gino has broken any rules since his return from his suspension then by all means the punishment for those rule breakages should be enforced.
But do not insult me,Gino and every other member here by allowing another member to openly flaunt the rules.
If you have a rule then stick to it you can't change it willy nilly to suit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:04 pm 
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Location: San Jose, CA
Defstartrooper wrote:
I am not pushing to change opinion and by the way that particular little quote does seem like some kind of veiled attempt at telling me if i don't shut up i might find myself banned.


We're all in the graces of the mods here. They can create any rule and enforce any rule they wish. We're merely guests and they are the hosts. I do not wish for any of us to exhaust their patience.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:03 pm
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Defstartrooper wrote:
Quote:
Yes, but again, one-dimensionalizing the rule and using the public to put pressure on the Mods to interpret the rule in favor of one side without taking the historical context into account isn't going to make the mods any happier. So it's okay for GINO to speak his mind at the cost of another, exempt from retroactive action and therefore exempt from responsibility...

... and so long as you can see his lack of cussing and outright personal attacks isn't baiting TE then you can justify calling for a strict adherence to the rules while benefiting from the fact that the mods are kind enough not to enact that rule retroactively if they pleased?

Don't push their hand into crafting a rule that says, "any kind of manipulation of public opionion to advance a personal agenda and to influence moderator decisions would result in a permanent ban" getting passed, then enforced immediately.


As far as i am concerned there is only one dimension to a rule it either applies or it is pointless.
What Gino has or hasn't said in the past is of no consequence if it were then it should have been dealt with at the time it is too late now to justify current attacks by TE on what was said in the past before this rule existed you cannot police the past only the present.
It is quite clear you are heavily biased toward TE for whatever reason i do not know nor care.
I do not particularly care for Gino or TE i am not clouded by personal opinions i am stating fact the rule is in place and has been broken simple as that.
Quote:
Don't push their hand into crafting a rule that says, "any kind of manipulation of public opionion to advance a personal agenda and to influence moderator decisions would result in a permanent ban" getting passed, then enforced immediately

I am not pushing to change opinion and by the way that particular little quote does seem like some kind of veiled attempt at telling me if i don't shut up i might find myself banned.
If you believe Gino has broken any rules since his return from his suspension then by all means the punishment for those rule breakages should be enforced.
But do not insult me,Gino and every other member here by allowing another member to openly flaunt the rules.
If you have a rule then stick to it you can't change it willy nilly to suit.


Great post Gary - I agree with you 100%

I've just gone back to the beginning of this thread

The question was "Who makes the most accurate helmet?"

And Gino answered "me!" and qualified

Sure he was arrogant, but I didnt see him breaking any rules.

However (self proclaimed) TE directs the following comments to Gino....

Quote:
Some expert you are. Just go back to being a liar and a thief.. it suits you better


Quote:
purchased the helmet for a TON more than your piss ant shit offer and lies to him. Some stand up person you are. Never knew I was aware of that huh? Truth hurts huh? Loser


Quote:
You cant even wear that total POS you are charging $850 for


Quote:
If you would like to know the WHOLE story of gino's misdoings and lies, PM me


And thats just a selection.

IMO these comments from TE are a disgrace and have no place here. His misconduct far outweighs anything Gino appears to have done.

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:38 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Essex UK
CSMacLaren wrote:
Defstartrooper wrote:
I am not pushing to change opinion and by the way that particular little quote does seem like some kind of veiled attempt at telling me if i don't shut up i might find myself banned.


We're all in the graces of the mods here. They can create any rule and enforce any rule they wish. We're merely guests and they are the hosts. I do not wish for any of us to exhaust their patience.


I agree the staff can create any rule they see fit but those rules should apply to everyone.
Or is that not the case ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:36 am 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:23 pm
Posts: 1197
Location: Turkey
For the love of all that is good, guys, please calm down!

The staff is not taking sides on anything. We may have our own opinions on things (we're only human), but our personal feelings DO NOT effect our decision making. There is no bias behind our actions.

Who said the rules don't apply to everyone? If someone breaks the rules, they will be punished. Give us some time to act, please.

Try to keep this thread on track if possible.


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