It is currently Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:46 am

All times are UTC


THE PROP DEN is primarily a Darth Vader Prop Discussion Board, but we also deal with other Star Wars Props as well as Prop Replicas from other movies. If you do not yet have an account, set one up, sign in and jump into the Vader Prop Discussions!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

The MR Stormtrooper Helmet should be
Just like the original 83%  83%  [ 20 ]
More symmetrical 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
Symmetrical 8%  8%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 24
Author Enter your Message here
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:20 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:41 pm
Posts: 3022
Location: The Netherlands
Knowledge is frustration, ignorance is bliss.... :wink:


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:33 pm 
Random avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:08 pm
Posts: 105
See Below


Last edited by zenwalker on Wed May 02, 2007 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:36 pm 
Random avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:08 pm
Posts: 105
CSMacLaren wrote:
Good observation, ZW.

There is a difference between specialists and generalists. We are probably considered specialists because we study the props to the point of a high degree of anal retention. But we may in fact be a minority.

Anyways, as I look at the MR, I notice they copied the stunt helmet's left eye's lower eyelid bumpiness. Are you guys sure you see symmetry? Other than the dome cap and the aerator tubes, the faceplate and mouth look asymmetrical to me upon casual review.


Sorry for posting twice, i wanted to quote Mac.
I think it has to do with not just symmetry but also with proportion. What I mean is, you can have an overall asymmetrical looking helmet that is close to an original, but if the propotionality of it is wrong it will still be inaccurate. For example, the MR Helmet looks asymmtrical but the overall width of the face is too narrow IMO. Also proportion has to do with how all the different elements of the helmet relate to each other (the eyes, ears, mouth, nose, etc.) If the face is already too narrow then the relationship between all those elements is already thrown off, even though it still looks asymmetrical. If you have done any sculpting of heads, faces etc. you will discover that the nose on a human face is the single most crucial factor in determinning the look of that face. Therefore, if the rest of the face is accurate but the nose is wrong then the whole thing looks 'off'. It is all about the proportions of all the elements and how they relate to each other, both the overall proportions and those of the individual elements. It also has to do with opposites, we only recognize something because we know it is not something else.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:56 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
ZenWalker,

Well said. I hope that what we're seeing is merely perspective distortion or some kind of lens distortion. Here on the Den we try to photograph things about 6 feet away to minimize perspective distortion, so that the photograph is more or less an accurate representation of the actual prop.

Well, let's hope the first 500 people are online prop collectors who participate in forums, and that we'll see photos soon!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:27 pm 
Random avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:08 pm
Posts: 105
Mac,
I agree with you that a lens can really distort the look of a 3D object. In this case though i don't think the lens could distort it that much, it would have to be one wide m@#&%rf&*#king lens. Typically the wider the lens and the closer the object to the lens the more distortion there will be. Like you said standing back at least 6 feet will lessen the distortion. To really get an accurate read on a 3D object i would use a prime telephoto (not a zoom lens, there is a difference between the two) lens and stand even farther back to flatten the image. If photographing several objects for comparison they would have to be photographed in the exact same way (lighting, distance, lens, etc.) to get an accurate comparison. Also better to frame the object in the middle of the lens where there is minimal distortion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:11 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:38 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Essex UK
Quote:
The unfortunate reality of all this is that it all boils down to profits. MR sold almost 500 of these inaccurate ST Helmets the first day. So, I don't know if they really care if it is accurate or not so long as they sell. In fact, it prpobably benefits them to do less research and spend less money on perfecting it when they know they are going to sell them anyway. I do believe there are some people at MR that care about quality and accuracy and some that maybe are higher up that don't, for them it is a business and that is all.
I do believe this is the first MR Replica product to come out since they merged with those other larger companies. I really hope that this new MR Stormtrooper Helmet is not a manifestation of a change in MR's philosophy and commitment to creating fairly accurate high quality prop replicas (I love their Millennium Falcon).


Yep your spot on there it is about profit although to be picky what they have is 500 pre-orders not particularly surprising on the first day not a huge figure though really if you consider thats worldwide sales how many of those are from retailers ? i've seen a number of people say that they have ordered one but if the final product isnt improved greatly they will be cancelling they just want their name on the list just in case.
It's 2 years since they showed the first prototype thats a fair bit of time for research and development.
I seriously doubt this helmet will be a big seller the price is too high for a casual fan and i doubt a great number of collectors will want to part with $400 for something so subpar.
Its true that you cant please everyone but the way MR are going they aren't going to be pleasing anyone they need to take a decision on what there customer base is and cater for those people if they are as they claim producing high end authentic replicas then the products should match the sales talk and stop producing mediocre stuff for the masses and slapping a premium price tag on it.
Quit the gimmicks and and the sales speil and let the props do the talking i say.
I hope these people that have ordered these arent too dissapointed in 2 years when they finally take delivery but i think most will.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:12 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
I just rembered something. Something VERY important.

We may be a minority in terms of the degree to which we uphold screen-accuracy and integrous representation of screen-used props. Despite being smaller in number than the community at large, what we say also carries greater weight due to the depth of our studies. Not that we are anything important but that people do read our opinions and analysis, and if there is anything that people have learned to do is to research qualified and experienced opinions before spending hard-earned money on luxury and collectible items.

That being said, I don't want to depict us as self-important authorities because we ourselves despise the self-appointed "experts" but we should not devalue the role we've played in educating the community at large.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:09 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:48 pm
Posts: 71
All good points gentlemen. Excellent thread.

Does anyone else have the slight fetish for licensed stuff that I do? I know it's terrible, but having the officially licensed product with plaque is still an attractive thing to me.

Don't get me wrong, I own a lot of fan made stuff, but I still appreciate having an official collectible.

The only problem is, now I'm looking at their Original Trilogy helmets as compliments to more accurate fan helmets, instead of the ultimate one-and-only-helmet-you'll-ever-need.

For example... the upcoming Boba. I'd like to pick up the MR one. The prototype shown a while back looks beautiful. But my gut tells me they'll never EVER mass produce that paint job properly, and so to satisfy my craving for accuracy, I'll have to buy a fan made Boba in addition to the MR one.

What a pain.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:03 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:38 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Essex UK
Personally im not fussed if its official or fan made as long as its decent enough and the price reflects the product i'd buy it.
If its a POS and costs a small fortune im not going to buy anything just because it has a label or stamp of approval.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:44 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
Posts: 10557
Location: Denmark
Actually... I'm all for licensed props... and tbh: I had no expectations that the MR OT products would be 100% accurate, but idealized, but the way they've idealized and gone about this Stormtrooper helmet is just beyond me... it's as if they had grand plans... then turned around 180 degrees and backtracked only to get stuck in the middle of good intentions.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 2:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:48 pm
Posts: 71
Well said Carsten. I agree completely. I actually wanted a nice idealized version. It still may happen. Let's cross our fingers on final product photos.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:56 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 657
Location: UK
Great thread - not sure how I've missed it!

My comments

1) We should be wary of placing too much emphasis on the prototypes we've seen so far. I've ordered one and I'm expecting the finished product to look more like the original Hero's than the ones they've shown off so far. As soon as there are better pics I'll certainly be getting them

2) I understand the MR guys are doing a lot of work to try and make it as accurate as they can. IMO its a moving feast

3) I'm not sure why they scanned in the Lucas Archive Hero and yet used Jason Joiners Stunt as the base. There must be a reason for this but I dont know what it is.

4) Because of 3 theyve had to "Heroise" a Stunt (remove the bumpo under the left eye etc.). However they have increased the size to counter for the depth and mould shrinkage Paul was taking about earlier.

5) Its Fiberglass so its never going to look 1:1 with the ABS originals -I can only presume there are other compromises theyve had to make due to the material change (eg. ear thickness)

6) As far as their decision to go with Fiberglass IMO its the right one. It allows them to produce a stormtroper helmet that will appeal to a large volume of people who expect a certain "quality" of collectible, with an excellent build quality at a "reasonable" price

7) To compare it to a DP or Rubies is daft. Its a long way past those (and I have a DP Deluxe which I luv btw) but will probably never quite match the accuracy of the best hand made, finished, painted non-licensed helmets. Its made from a totally different material so physically cant, but imo its "horses for courses"

8) We're anal. Very anal. IMO we only account for 10% of MR's buying public.

9) Given MR has pre-sold 500 in a couple of days that is pretty impressive and suggests theyre gdoing something right. When the 30th Anniv kicks in and these are in peoples hands I think they will sell a huge amount

10) I said it before, its sometimes about "Horses for courses"

Ramble over!

Cheers

Jez


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:57 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:03 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Canaduh!
As I had said on the RPF, if they had stuck to the same proto that they had shown at the Toy Fair or C3, then I'd be all over it. I think that the Trooper should be symmetrical, perfect and showroom fresh keeping in line with the Empire's dogma of uniformity.
The latest iteration is an ungainly mess of accurate wonky and attempted symmetrical which just doesn't work on any level.

With that said, I'm sure they'll still sell a boatload of them...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:24 pm 
Random avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:08 pm
Posts: 105
Jez, you sound hopeful, and that is a good sign, always good to think positive. I just hope MR comes out with some new pictures soon so we can see what the actual helmet will look like. As for me I also pre-ordered one 'just in case'. However, other fan-made helmets are out there and I may switch my funds over to one of those if they don't let us know what's happening soon. If I have to wait too long and miss an opportunity on another helmet I will cancel my order. There will be 2500 of these helmets made and if I really like it I will pick one up on Ebay later for probably less than what MR is selling them for.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:55 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
Posts: 10557
Location: Denmark
Well, certainly the material shouldn't matter at all to get it accurate looking. All the material adds to is the look of the surface color and sheen. There is no reason why a fiberglass helmet, in terms of shape, shouldn't look exactly like a styrene or ABS helmet. Just look at the TE SFS fiberglass helmet compared to the TE Stunt. They are two helmets sourced from two different stunt helmets, but are almost exact matches to their sources and still has that STORMTROOPER look.

If an original Hero was scanned and the insides of a Stunt was molded... then surely they should be able to reproduce and EXACT match to the sources used. And with the cast from the Stunt and the data from the Hero, they have a perfect recipe for getting it right... and should have no real problems, unless the data and cast work against each other, which I can't see any reason why they should.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

All times are UTC


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Blue Moon by Trent © 2007
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Hosted by Freeforum.ca, get your free forum now! TOS | Support Forums | Report a violation
buy web visitors
MultiForums powered by echoPHP phpBB MultiForums