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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Location: San Jose, CA
Good post, M! There is also another reason why I've not gotten in the phone. In part, if I talk to people representing one side, it's only fair that I talk to the other side as well. But these next two months I have to put in very long hours at work. Long phone calls in a tired state trying to understand abbreviations and different tones and tints of pissing isn't really how I want to spend my free time.

But the main reason is this: the thrill of discovery. The magic of myth that made Vader so special has, for me, been nearly ruined with too many 20+ page argumentative threads with people who put themselves on their own thrones. Even got maligned as a recaster and I've never touched moulding compound in my life...

Work being the hell it's been, Vader props was the be thing I liked coming home to, and Vader politics ruined that proverbial garden.

Lee and Midnight Trooper have kindled a new fascination in me: Fett. So from a newbie's perspective, I get to be fascinated all over again, howbeit with another prop. Perhaps a simpler design than Vader, but with myriad subtleties.

Fascination and joy of discovery once again. So if I don't yak with anyone on the phone, it's because the hobby is getting fun again and I'd like using text posts to keep that going, okay? :ac6


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:38 pm
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On the ledge thing that was definitely not on the first two prototypes. Definitely it was possible they added that to facilitate visor installation I could buy that for sure. I ahve found after working on the Fett helmet, ESB blaster, mini scale blaster, Sideshow 1/4 scale Fett and the X-wing for Efx...the factories do not care unfortunately and they will take you best effort and turn it into a train wreck. I had no control over it if that makes sense.

I may be incorrect but if I recall they got their first 100 helmets and more were already committed, I was shown some of the first few copies and just shook my head when I saw the taper. I asked the obvious "can you do this over, fix the issues?" meaning the paint job and the taper. They said "no" and that no one would notice it. I'm like...okayyyy. Very disappointing since all of that was directed at me when the helmet came out. I actually got into a verbal with Lucasfilm head of licensing over the helmet they wanted to recreate. They we adamant and hung up the phone. I was told later after they hung up the phone they grabbed the helmet I did and started walking back to the archive with it leaving the real one sitting at the table with the MR folks. They were like "hey you grabbed the wrong helmet"...whether intentional or not it made me feel good.

I did step over the line on the get laid thing I apologize MT.

Lee

I edited to add this. Don't over think it too much or you'll wind up into a Vader C scratch whirlpool. The MR was based off a 3d scan process so the helmet was assembled when they scanned it. The outward jut of the mandible is still there and that is what fascinates me. If you just take an MR and assemble it without trying to fix the taper that is how it will look. I feel the factory thought it was supposed to be like that since they are pumping out stuff like crazy and probably have no idea who what Boba Fett was. Imagine working at a factory like that and you were asked to paint some My Little Pony figures and their fan base lost it when you didn't get eyeballs painted canon. I just think they stuff the visor in and hammered it and moved onto the next helmet...heck did you see that sideshow bust of Fett that had that taper in it as well...I see on their site they have now photoshopped it to correct it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Lee, thanks for chiming in.

So on the topic of the ledge...

Midnight Trooper wrote:
On the visor pinch; mostly I agree with you Lee.
That mandible juts out on the real helmets, less so on the ESB since the visor is so closely fitted.(possibly contributing to a bit of extra flair as pointed out)
But the MR prototypes did not have it. I think the taper problem occurred when they messed with the visor installation method. Either a new mold master was made which had improper visor installation (tapered) or could it even be each time a visor is glued in? Mick, did it pop into shape when you took the visor out?


... Does someone in the community now own either of the prototypes to where we can verify if a ledge had been added?

If not, then I might that there had to be a helmet to which the ledge was added in mass production, and that the Paint Masters may not have been used to create the new mould.

We are in a kind of factual grey area in that we don't know the status of the Mould Master and what changes were done to it.

Interestingly, some had sought to cut the (wearer's) left faceplate near the eye in order to reposition the faceplate to get more parallel mandibles. Do either of you guys think this is an accurate approach, or is it trading one issue off with creating another?


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:38 pm
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Agreed. It's like beating a dead horse in the end. Based on my experience with this stuff it sort of doesn't matter and feeds an eternal discussion leading to no real answers. I've been collecting original props for many years and only one has ever looked as good in real life as it did on screen...er make that two...a Trek Into Darkness piece and an Armageddon space shuttle. Everything else most fans wouldn't own. I saw the inside of a Vader helmet once and wow was that ugly.

Lee


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:07 pm 
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Lee,

So all in all, is the MR size-accurate? You mentioned the 3D scan was increased in size by a few percent to compensate for shrinkage of the mold. I was going to use it as a reference for some measurements that would be in millimeters.


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:56 am 
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The size of the MR is darn close if it is off it is undetectable to the naked eye. One goof they made were the ears.

It was on the ear cap. I'll do my best to explain it but the island that cap sits on tapers on the real helmet and not on the MR which resulted in their ear cap being bigger IIRC. Basically they cleaned up a wonky portion of the helmet. I don't have an MR here but let me check and I'll try and take a photo.

I feel the MR is too idealized too sharp on the edges etc. Check the photo below it was done by a friend at the time of a photo I took of the helmet after my first pull. He found a photo of a Jedi helmet and did this comp. I thought it was pretty cool how he lined up stuff but one interesting note..check the mandible jutting out on the ROTJ helmet causing a taper at the top of visor. Over time it pulled away it seems.

Attachment:
Jedi_vs_RS_Helmet2.jpeg


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:07 pm 
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Lee, Midnight,

Is the brow depth supposed to be the same thickness as the faceplates?

I was browsing TDH and found one remarkable tutorial on fixing the visor pinch without hacking the helmet half to death (though it does involve undoing 19 or so screws) at:

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/f23/anot ... ild-39002/

What's interesting is that the T-visor's vertical column was not cut parallel by the factory.

Image

Check out the other photos. Do they strike you as the T-Visor was cut to follow the pinch?

Madrid Boba appears to have made the base of his T-Visor wider in order to create that more parallel look.


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:00 pm 
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I would say that is a good assumption. I almost don't have too much more to offer on this than what I have speculated. I'm kind of out of answers and only have observations and speculation left. But the factory screwed something up and the taper got in there somehow but how I do not know..I sure I wish I did.

Lee


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:18 pm 
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So if the visor on the production helmets were made tapered to fit the shape of the already tapered master casting, that means the mold master was cast tapered due to how they installed that visor and that is where the mistake happened.
If the production helmets were individually squeezed to fit the tapered visor shape (unlikely) then what I have been saying about the cause of the taper due to improper visor installation is still true.

This goes back to other earlier posts of mine.
Midnight Trooper wrote:
I think the taper problem occurred when they messed with the visor installation method. Either a new mold master was made which had improper visor installation (tapered) or could it even be each time a visor is glued in?


So going back to the first page of this thread again I read that Lee opined the MR taper was caused by the shape of the original helmet sculpt and the way the visor was installed.
I said I agreed with most of what he said but I thought the taper had to have been created by the MR mold master since the real helmets dont taper and neither did the MR prototype castings.


So now can anyone see why I got upset that I was blasted for offering my opinion? And why I was confused that it created so much drama when basically I was contributing to a topic I was interested and well versed in?
Especially when Lee's theory and mine were extremely closely related!

At the end of the day we still dont have a definite answer. Lee and I put forth our similar theories. But only one of us was burned for it.

Going back to page 2
Midnight Trooper wrote:
My theory doesn't even fully disagree with his! We both think the pinch was caused by improper visor installation. We just differ on exactly Why.
AND neither of us knows for sure.


And Lee's final word above.
Rogue Studio wrote:
I would say that is a good assumption. I almost don't have too much more to offer on this than what I have speculated. I'm kind of out of answers and only have observations and speculation left. But the factory screwed something up and the taper got in there somehow but how I do not know..I sure I wish I did.

Lee



Other people put forth theories and you allow that they are good assumptions.
Now here at the end, would you allow that my theory below, contained in my first post in this thread, might be a good assumption?

Midnight Trooper wrote:
But the MR prototypes did not have it. I think the taper problem occurred when they messed with the visor installation method. Either a new mold master was made which had improper visor installation (tapered) or could it even be each time a visor is glued in?


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
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Location: San Jose, CA
Good to see that you two have some similar viewpoints on the topic.

Let me ask again, is the brow depth supposed to be the same thickness as the faceplates? This is the case of the SgtFang bucket and Don Post Deluxe Fett, but they are a bit descended from the originals. The MR brow depth is at least twice the thickness and so I wonder if the factory deepened the brow to make the visor installation flush with the mandibles / faceplates' interior.


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Very probable on anything the factory does. I'm sure someone with absolutely no knowledge of the helmets didd what they thought would best get that faceplate to mesh and align easily since it was intended for mass production. I believe the lower edge of the brow is not flush even with the faceplate.

Lee


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Here's a photo I found on my HD. These were two MR rebuilds I did for customers.


Attachment:
shoes 005.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Fett Helmet taper
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Location: Sydney
Attachment:
DSC05623.JPG

Mac, this is an image of an unaltered first gen MR prototype(though the ear platforms are warped), as you can see the visor area has not been removed,


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