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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:01 pm 
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Just makes it even more impressive, imo.


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:28 pm 
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This is something that I think gets taken for granted watching Vader on screen but I feel that the face in particular is a really clever piece of sculpture.

I went along to a Rodin exhibition here in London some time ago and I was really struck by how dramatic some of his carved stone faces looked. To get a really dark, black looking eye on a white stone surface,(something that you're going to be able to see from a distance) it seems you have gouge them as deep holes so that the shadow there shows up the eye. Also the eyebrows on Rodin's work that I saw were quite pronounced and the noses were really strong and I wondered at the time if this was to make them stand out better, I guess if the features were too soft all you'd see from a couple of meters would be a blank oval shape instead of a recognisable face and it would loose impact..

It could be conincidence, and I know you were following a brief Brian with a sketch given to you, but it looks like you've applied some of the same techniques to Vader. The deep hooded eyes capture shadow and make them look black (or maybe dark red!) and the crescent shaped grooves under the cheeks look like they're adding emphasis to the shapes of the cheeks and separating them from the sides of the mouth?

I'm no art critic but this really leapt out at my when I went to the Rodin exhibition, were you bearing all this kind of thing in mind as you worked on the face Brian? was it your instinct or training as a sculptor or was it subconcious?


Perhaps I'm reading too much into it but when I saw Rodin's pices it occured to me that Vader's face was following a lot of sculptural traditions that go back a long way. A really clever piece of work!



Jeremy


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:00 pm 
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gonk27 wrote:
This is something that I think gets taken for granted watching Vader on screen but I feel that the face in particular is a really clever piece of sculpture.

It's also one of the key things that separates the Muir sculpt from the RotS Vader helmet... it absolutely has strength and character, whereas the RotS lacks spirit - like a passable likeness, acceptable, but cold and bare. An uninspired look.

Anyone can make a Vader helmet... though... it takes something special to make it great. :thumbsup


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:53 pm 
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Brian,

It appears that a lot of the crew thought this was B-grade at best and didn't think it would ever become the phenomenon that it in fact became. Did you ever have any feelings of doubt or could you tell it was going to be something special?


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:47 pm 
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Yes I completely agree with Gonk....the mask or face of Vader...it truly is a work of art....real sculpture...and it has an expression to it. And I agree that the ROTS has lost its expression. The Vader face I've always thought is more like a face and not like a robot. Although when I first saw Vader onscreen, as a child I couldn't tell if he was a robot or a man but he seemed to act like a man and talk like one. C3PO's face (Nick Pemberton's work?) has that same ability to show an expression. Vader's expression seems determined, serious, malevolent. It also reflects how this man is trapped inside himself, inside his own world of evil...the suit and helmet reflect that jail he's locked himself into...a jail cell of the Dark Side....even the teeth of Vader remind me of the bars of a jail cell so that even his breath cannot escape freely. Ok well that's all a bit cerebral but hey when it comes to the Vader helmet I can't help but wax poetic... :lol


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:55 pm 
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C3P0 was sculpted by Liz Moore


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:23 pm 
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To me Vader has mechanical skull look to it.
It was and is an icon as well as an amazing original sculpture. When i first saw star wars at the Dominion in londons tottenham court road in 77, you were just just was blown away at the quality of the "print" and the sound. Vader and the troopers were a Mystery in the fact that you just couldn't tell if they were human or Alien.
Brilliant.
I wonder if brian sculpted vader today from the rough scetches if it would be slightly different. I Know first hand that when creating things that its a bit of organic process and these things have a habit of going in one direction or another?

cheers


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:23 pm 
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A bit off topic here if I may.

After having met Brian and his lovely wife Lindsay, one afternoon at Hooters (Brian's decision, not mine :wink: ), I was pleasantly surprised to find them both to be down to earth people and very in tune with the prop community. I personally think his vader sculpt is one of, if not, the best work of art I've ever seen. He showed me numerous pictures of some of his other work on various movies that 1st, I never knew he was responsible for and 2nd, it left me with my jaw to the ground. I would venture to say, that even though Brian is proud of his work on vader, if others were to compare his vader sculpt to his other works of art, it would probably pale in comparison in their minds.

Ok back on topic.


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:21 pm 
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Thanks, Brian, Liz Moore...I was mixing up Nick and Liz with the stormtrooper helmet sculpture...

All I can say is we are still so very fortunate to have the creator of the Darth Vader helmet and armor here with us....and yes, if it is alright for me to say, they are a fun and lovely couple. I hope we'll see them at Celebration V! :cheers


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:22 pm 
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chefhawk wrote:
Vader and the troopers were a Mystery in the fact that you just couldn't tell if they were human or Alien.
Brilliant.


I totally agree. I wasn't sure for years, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:53 am 
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clutch wrote:
Brian,

It appears that a lot of the crew thought this was B-grade at best and didn't think it would ever become the phenomenon that it in fact became. Did you ever have any feelings of doubt or could you tell it was going to be something special?


I certainly did have my doubts as did many of the crew. Only seeing the finished film on screen at the preview did I realise what a fantastic film it was and I stood and applauded with everyone else at the end.

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:57 am 
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chefhawk wrote:
To me Vader has mechanical skull look to it.
It was and is an icon as well as an amazing original sculpture. When i first saw star wars at the Dominion in londons tottenham court road in 77, you were just just was blown away at the quality of the "print" and the sound. Vader and the troopers were a Mystery in the fact that you just couldn't tell if they were human or Alien.
Brilliant.
I wonder if brian sculpted vader today from the rough scetches if it would be slightly different. I Know first hand that when creating things that its a bit of organic process and these things have a habit of going in one direction or another?

cheers


Every sculpt would be slightly different however hard you tried to replicate it. I know one thing that if I sculpted Vader today I would definitely take plenty of photos and keep a cast or 10 :lol


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:20 am 
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vaderman wrote:
chefhawk wrote:
To me Vader has mechanical skull look to it.
It was and is an icon as well as an amazing original sculpture. When i first saw star wars at the Dominion in londons tottenham court road in 77, you were just just was blown away at the quality of the "print" and the sound. Vader and the troopers were a Mystery in the fact that you just couldn't tell if they were human or Alien.
Brilliant.
I wonder if brian sculpted vader today from the rough scetches if it would be slightly different. I Know first hand that when creating things that its a bit of organic process and these things have a habit of going in one direction or another?

cheers


Every sculpt would be slightly different however hard you tried to replicate it. I know one thing that if I sculpted Vader today I would definitely take plenty of photos and keep a cast or 10 :lol


Lol,
Just out of interest Brian, do you do much sculpture these days?

cheers


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:27 am 
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Darth Karo wrote:
A bit off topic here if I may.

After having met Brian and his lovely wife Lindsay, one afternoon at Hooters (Brian's decision, not mine :wink: ), I was pleasantly surprised to find them both to be down to earth people and very in tune with the prop community. I personally think his vader sculpt is one of, if not, the best work of art I've ever seen. He showed me numerous pictures of some of his other work on various movies that 1st, I never knew he was responsible for and 2nd, it left me with my jaw to the ground. I would venture to say, that even though Brian is proud of his work on vader, if others were to compare his vader sculpt to his other works of art, it would probably pale in comparison in their minds.

Ok back on topic.


Thanks DK it was a very enjoyable afternoon chatting to you and Slasher X and how time flies when talking Vader! We chose Hooters for the location - great views across the water - but the other attractions were for you young guys :lol

It's great after all these years to be recognised for the work I did on Star Wars. There's such a lot of impressive work that I was lucky enough to have had the opportunity to sculpt on the 70 films I've worked on. It is the outside work that I am proud to say will be preserved as part of our English Heritage and hopefully be there for hundreds of years to come.

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:32 am 
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SithLord wrote:
Thanks, Brian, Liz Moore...I was mixing up Nick and Liz with the stormtrooper helmet sculpture...

All I can say is we are still so very fortunate to have the creator of the Darth Vader helmet and armor here with us....and yes, if it is alright for me to say, they are a fun and lovely couple. I hope we'll see them at Celebration V! :cheers


Cheers Thomas - we'd love to go to Celebration V (if invited :wink:)

Brian


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