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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:39 pm 
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You would be amazed at some of the fantastic cast from original items that I know of personally in peoples collections, that have been kept out of the public for this very reason. They could very easily be made available, but probably won't ever see the light of day, despite my ongoing efforts. :wink:
I've been very lucky to have had access to some, but surely not the larger portion of what is there.

Trust me when I say it would make your insides hurt.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:57 am
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Location: Germany
GINO wrote:
The only thing we CAN do is not support them.

Even if it means ultimately not getting an item we want if the only way to get it is through a recaster.




Yes - that is correct and I agree - :) - see Gino - I really don't want to
"get in the Ring" with anybody :lol
Simply "not buying" recasts is the only thing we can effectively do.
It doesn't stop them though - it's only a few bucks less in their wallets.
But really - how many people can resits if they come across an item
they really want and they can't get it any other way ?

There is a lot to discuss on this matter, and a lot of different opinions.

So ... how to deal with THIS situation:

- Prototype Set For Stun Stormtrooper helmet Lasrescanned for MVERTA

- SFS made available first by TE without permisson (if I got that right)

- SFS Recast from unauthorized TE Helmet made available by Mr. XYZ

So if we all shouldn't buy recasts at all - We should NOT buy the Original
TE for 1200,- and we should NOT buy the 80,- recast of it ...

Now, what a dilemma, as the ONLY chance to get a SFS is to buy an
unauthorized Version either from TE or Mr. XYZ ...

At least if MVerta would sell them, as he seems to be the screwed at the
beginning of this line ...

Looks as if we're supporting recasters (almost) no matter from whom
we are buying ...


Last edited by JRX on Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:52 pm 
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In regards to THIS situation, you are correct.
Buying either one of those items is supporting a recaster.
A lot of times, people just don't know any better. That doesn't mean that they have to throw away their recast item because that's ridiculous. It's all about once you know better and yet you still make that choice that you've crossed the line.



"But really - how many people can resits if they come across an item
they really want and they can't get it any other way ?"

Those with honor in this hobby and those without. I guarantee you that those without it, (even though they might have their recast items) have LESS than those that do. Not to mention their loss at future opportunities.

Isn't that what our community should be about? Policing ourselves and informing the uninformed. As an informed honorable community, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:07 pm 
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GINO wrote:
Those with honor in this hobby and those without. I guarantee you that those without it, (even though they might have their recast items) have LESS than those that do. Not to mention their loss at future opportunities.


Well, my collection is pretty small ... only 14 Helmets at all ... and I
believe 2 of them could be recasts, although I'm not sure - my Biker
Scout by some guy from Spain named Ampabala, and my (pretty crappy)
Royal Guard Helmet wich I bought from some guy from ebay in Germany
... other than that - only original makers I think.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:12 pm 
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I try my best to stick to the higher standard... but I do fall in... both unknowingly and knowingly... I would lie if I claimed otherwise. Sometimes I'm a sucker for my own stupidity and desires.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:15 pm 
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We should hold ourselves to higher standards. It is usually the case that if I can't afford an item, I wait. Even if there is a cheaper (recast) option. I will usually end up with the piece that I originally wanted and sometimes come out ahead. In the case of this recast (resin) SFS helmet, we know right off the bat it was stolen from someone. But the deal between Mverta and TE is one person's word against another. I don't know these two men from Adam. Either one could be lying. Should we hold off buying something because there is a dispute amongst producers?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:17 pm 
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You call 14 helmets small?

Anyway, you might be surprised at some of the people who made names for themselves by recasting the stuff they got that wasn't supposed to be shared.

Some names that immediately come to mind are:
Matt trooper stuff (post the year 2000)
GH vader items
Meatsock trooper helmets
SDS Armor
Paul (troopermaster) helmet faceplates both stunt and hero.

Some people have no idea these things are recast, and some don't want to believe it because then it puts a damper on things in their collection. Some know they are recast and simply don't care.

People who supply recast items are often protected when they should be shunned for their actions. "But they were so nice when I met/talked with them." shouldn't give them a pass.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:24 pm 
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clutch wrote:
We should hold ourselves to higher standards. It is usually the case that if I can't afford an item, I wait. Even if there is a cheaper (recast) option. I will usually end up with the piece that I originally wanted and sometimes come out ahead.


Words to live by.


clutch wrote:
But the deal between Mverta and TE is one person's word against another. I don't know these two men from Adam. Either one could be lying.


Clutch, I invite you to re-read the post on the rpf about this topic. There's a link floating around here somewhere. Mverta had nothing to gain by outing Matt about this outside of exposing Matt for what he did as a warning to others.

Funny how with Matt it always comes down to his word against another's. You see that a lot in recasting situations as well. 99% of the time, it's the person making the stuff that is in the wrong.
I say it's important to take into consideration someone's track record, and Matt's is horrible.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:57 am
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GINO wrote:
You call 14 helmets small?


Well, reminding that I have been collecting for well over 10 years I think
it is a rather small collection compared to some other guys stuff here :wink:

Ok - I bought and re-sold a LOT of stuff in the past, and had I kept it all my
collection would be twice as big at least, but it isn't - so in the end my
collection consists of the stuff I actually own ... "just" 14 helmets :rolleyes

... and they are NOT all Vader helmets ... :lol :lol :lol


Last edited by JRX on Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:31 pm 
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Quality over quantity. :thumbsup


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:45 pm 
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GINO wrote:
Quality over quantity. :thumbsup


I usually do think that way, yes - :)

But sometimes you pay for quality only to learn that you shelled out a
lot of $$$ out the window for unaccurate crap ... The biggest mistake I
actually made was buying the SDS Helmets : Stunt, Hero and TIE ...
I wish I had saved my $$$ for the Stunt and Hero and bought a "good"
Helmet instead ... but I can't turn back time ...

I don't want any possible helmet variant out there. I'd be happy to get
the ones I like best in their best and most accurate form, such as a Vader
helmet for each OT movie, an ANH Stunt and Hero Stormtrooper, a TIE-Pilot,
and an AT-AT Driver ... I don't really care too much for the Royal Guard,
Biker Scout and all the Rebel Helmets, so I don't really need those ...

But money is a rare thing these days, and to get back on the subject:

From whom do you buy now if you really dig the unique look of the SFS ?
Do you buy one at all ??? What about those who already bought one from
TE - are they to be "looked down to" from now on for buying a recast ?
Sometimes it all isn't black and white - we live in a huge grey-zone ...

This special recast has an intersting "twist" to it ... what should make you
feel more bad if you bought it - the TE for spending so much money on a
ripped off item, or the "SFC" (Set For Cheap) for beeing an obvoius recast


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:08 pm 
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The dark side of the recasting issue and people being vigilant and aware... we also get the ones who shout recaster all too often and without any proof to back up that claim.

GINO, I have seen you throw out the recaster claim against TrooperMaster on more than one forum and more than one occasion, but still haven't seen any real evidence presented to back up that claim and until you do I will kindly ask you not to call him that or include him in any recasters lists.

Recasting is a serious offense, imo, but it lies with the accuser to prove it without a shadow of a doubt. This is neither defending nor accusing anybody, but simple facts and rules of the forum. We need proof before labelling anyone anything.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:48 pm 
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JRX wrote:
But there is a huge difference between an original sculpted piece that is beeing recast and a Helmet that from the start was an unlicesed or "stolen" piece I think.


I think you said it well, and that just about sums it up for an original sculpted piece or something someone has significantly reworked to improve upon its accuracy and/or aesthetics.

If the cat is out of the bag, then there's little to nothing we can do. We can call for a boycott and that only works if everyone follows such a boycott. So the "stolen" piece gets recast and recast. Each gets crappier or smaller, or things get get so mass produced that they result in inferior kits. Much like the condition of a lot of DP kits I finally ended up with.

Then when you think that a wrong has perpetuated, there comes a point where hopfully a good arises. People become aware of how crappy the recast is and then hope to have something nicer. They do more research online and become connected with communities whereupon they learn of better kits and then invest upwards.

That's basically what happened to me. If it weren't for the Rubie's helmet, I would never have known what it was like to own a prop. If it weren't for Golden Armor's and ArmorMasks' kits, I would never have known what it was like to modify a kit. And if it weren't for the extreme frustration such kits put me though, I would not have gone and scratchbuilt a ROTS Vader.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:53 pm 
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GINO wrote:
You call 14 helmets small?


Give him time. The lad has a big appetite. :toothy


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:33 pm 
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GINO wrote:

Anyway, you might be surprised at some of the people who made names for themselves by recasting the stuff they got that wasn't supposed to be shared.

Some names that immediately come to mind are:
Matt trooper stuff (post the year 2000)
GH vader items
Meatsock trooper helmets
SDS Armor
Paul (troopermaster) helmet faceplates both stunt and hero.

Some people have no idea these things are recast, and some don't want to believe it because then it puts a damper on things in their collection. Some know they are recast and simply don't care.


Now here is the question from a newbie. Since some of the JB and SPFX stuff originates from the GH Vader parts. And you say that GH was recast, what do we call JB and SPFX? Recasters, armorers, artists (since they have made modifications to said parts)?

Also with TM even if the faceplate is a recast, you still got to give the guy a ton of credit for scratch building a set of stormtrooper armor thats incredibly accurate.


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