It is currently Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:48 am

All times are UTC


THE PROP DEN is primarily a Darth Vader Prop Discussion Board, but we also deal with other Star Wars Props as well as Prop Replicas from other movies. If you do not yet have an account, set one up, sign in and jump into the Vader Prop Discussions!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 105 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Enter your Message here
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:09 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:38 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Essex UK
Well i suppose there is a similarity but then Cantina Dude did say he used these photos as reference for perspective etc so its not surprising is it.
That is not the same as tracing though.
I'm not familiar with these belts are they the real deal or replicas ?
Were they photographed by you Gino ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:48 pm 
Random avatar
I didn't start out really being upset, just slighted by not being given credit.
Now it seems people don't want to acknowledge or deny that these drawings came from my photos. Sure, now I'm upset and if you were me you would be too.
People wonder why I don't share stuff very much in regards to vader. This is a prime example. On the one occasion I post clear pics of what the stuff should look like, someone takes my photos, creates a template from them for the world, and on top of that denies me credit.
Well, that makes me want to share more. :rolleyes
I've put together two comparisons. You would have to have absoutely no visual distinctive skills to not see what I'm talking about.
To me, its BS. Promise, this will be the last time I ever post good photos like these again or help out people at large with questions if this is how its going to be. I had planned to post photos documenting all the components for each movie, but if this is what I have to look forward to then I'd be a fool to do so.

Image


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:18 pm 
Random avatar
GINO amazing stuff, as always.

I have to say this though. In regards to your coment. I for one can't understand why people want to be know as "the bump in the road" when people ask for clear answers to help them out in this hobby. I would much rather be know as the one that helps out in any way I can, and help people speed along the Vaderinfo Highway. GINO your knowledge is wast, and so are your skills in this vadermaking hobby, why not be know as the ONLY one with the knowledge that really helps out, god knows there are enough, way to big egos out there.

Be know for the good, and not for the bad.

Hope it makes sence.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:25 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:25 pm
Posts: 2871
Hmmm, this is unfortunate.

It does look similar to be honest and I understand your frustration Gino. Whether this was actually taken directly is not for me to speculate as it's not my place but I do know myself I have shared much along the way as you have,and in that I've had some good and bad experiences where people have taken photos without permission that I scanned, resized etc.. but I accept that I did not own the copyright.

When it comes to your personal items, once an image is posted then it can be out of our hands. Now obviously it's taken more personal as it's your hard work that has gone into that piece especially when it's first class that's superior next to the majority.

Either way Cantina Dude has not only made the so called experts refer occasionally to the diagrams of armour, chestboxes and belt boxes but it's good for the newbies that are fortunate to come into this information easily.

I know myself after years of researching Vader I have glanced back to these images so whether they came from yourself or through diagram I for one am grateful. I completely acknowledge the prinicpal but I would not let anything put you off from sharing or helping when you can as it's happened to many and they sink into the abbyss within time.

I hope that was kind of a neutral opinion on this situation, but that's my take on it from experience and as you hold much priviledged information beneficial to the Vader community it would be a loss for many.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:51 pm 
Random avatar
Some things I can share, others I can't for sometimes complicated reasons.

I posted those belt photos because I was proud of them as well as to show people differences/similarities in the belts that most people at the time did not know about.
For me, credit is a huge thing.
Why help and share when people are going to take what you give them and not even acknowledge you for it. Makes me not ever want to do it again if that's how it is going go be handled.
Surely you can understand how I feel.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:06 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:41 pm
Posts: 3022
Location: The Netherlands
Okay you've made your point Gino. I would suggest Gino and C_D resolving this issue through PM as it concerns only the two of them.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:39 pm 
Random avatar
With respect, I feel this is a public issue as it affects everyone.
I would rather people know my feelings on the matter as an open book.
Also, nothing really for he and I to discuss. He already said he "used" them, but the way I see it is more like transformed them into illustations with a few minor tweaks.
Think of it this way, do you honestly think he would have those illustrations and look the way they do were it not for my photos? Absolutely not. Which is why I feel slighted for not being given credit.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:48 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
Okay,

I do graphics for a living. Some of the graphics I've posted aren't reflective of my professional work because I view Star Wars as a hobby and I'm not making money out of it. Plus, I just want to make the point with pictures and move on.

Like Cantina Dude, I use Adobe Illustrator. I also use Photoshop.

Gino, I think your comparison was both correct and flawed. So let me provide some assistance.

For the record, I do not know Cantina Dude or Gino, and I am not taking sides here. I am only sharing observations. No malice is intended towards either side, nor am I passing judgement on anyone.

Image

The above is Cantina Dude's image superimposed over Gino's. I reprocessed the graphic so the lines are green instead of black.

Now as Cantina had said, after drawing the left box, he flipped it over to the right (there is a "Mirror" feature in Adobe Illustrator). And I have verified this. I have superimposed his artwork of the left box over the right and they are a match.

Therefore, the right boxes of Cantina's and Gino's photograph will not line up and give you a positive match.

So let's focus on the left box.

The lines are very close. They overlay just about perfectly. Even the perspective is an extremely close match.

So this looks in favor of GINO.

Now to be fair to Cantina Dude, here is the same illustration overlaying his pencil drawing:

Image

Again, very, very close. There is always the possibility, of course, that it is coincidence. There are various people who own accurate belt boxes and can photograph them. The distance between buttons and their spatial proportions are not unknown to the community.

Conclusion

So what is the liklihood that he printed the photo out, then placed a piece of paper over it, did a rough pencil tracing, and then used Adobe Illustrator on top of his own rough tracing? If this is the case, this is his artwork.

I have the ability to trace over any photograph, print it out, the lay a blank sheet of paper over the printout, and do a rough pencil drawing, and then tell the world what a great eye I have for Vader that I can draw this out of my head. But who would want to go through that level of effort? If such a person found reward in the recognition of his illustrations and thrived on such deception, then at the end of the day they have to struggle with their own inward emptiness as a human being.

Gino, whatever you decide, do not let this discourage you from being the magnificent and generous human being you are in sharing knowledge with others. All of us know what we know because someone didn't hoarde information.

I believe that if indeed Gino's photos were used that as a courtesy some acknowledgement should be given. This is not a legal requirement. Some might say, "Why? It's an educational reference?" In the academic world, if you write an educational paper or book and if you do not cite your references, people who find out will cry foul, and an accusation of plagiarism is determental in academic circles.

Some food for thought.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:51 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:41 pm
Posts: 3022
Location: The Netherlands
Again, you've made your point. We know how you feel about not being given credit. I'm very sorry for that, but there's only one who can give you those credits.

So people, sit back, relax and let's hear what C_D has to say.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:07 pm 
Random avatar
Here's the ESB one.
Image

If you were going to make illustrations, why make them look practically exactly like my photos? Why not do your own version without using my work? If you are going to use my work, all I ask for is credit on it when you show or use it. That's all I care about.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
Gino,

Who's the vendor for your belt? Or is it scratch built by you?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:35 pm 
Random avatar
Everything I have is made by me, cast off original, or found item.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:42 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
Nice!

Yes, in that case I think a reference is definitely called for since these are illustrations concerning actual props.

Found item... as in Patsy's two coconut shells? :ac6


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:02 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Vancouver
Holy smokes! People have been busy!

Well I kind of thought that this thing was resolved when I last posted on Monday (on page 2, you remember page 2, don't you?). From what I was reading from Gino (and please correct me if I'm wrong), all he was looking for was some credit for the use of his photos. I was never trying to hide anything, and I fully disclosed exactly what I did in my previous post. I have given him credit (which, again, I think was the only issue here) and I was under the impression that he was satisfied. I didn't think that Gino was accusing me of lying about anything, so I don't see the need to "take sides" or put on a sleuthing cap and get to the bottom of it all! :wink:

And there certainly is no need to gang up on anyone for speaking their mind. I fully encourage people to make it known if anybody has a problem with anything, as that is really the only way to reach a resolution and carry on enjoying life and this hobby.

Anyway, Gino, if I am mistaken about us "being cool", then please let me know what I can do to rectify the situation. If it's simply a matter of getting rid of these diagrams all together, then I guess I can do that. Or if you are in fact fine with things now, that's cool too! I certainly have no beef with you, so please let me know!

Well I think that's just about enough for now. If there is anything else that needs clarifying, let me know and I'll do my best to answer. I hope things work out fine for everybody!

All the best,

MJC.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:10 am 
Random avatar
MJC,
Yes we're cool.
I don't want you to get rid of the drawings, that was never my issue.
I just want people to know that when they see them, what they were derived from. It would be cool if in the bottom corner somewhere in small type you said something like, "illustration based on photos of Gino's belts".
Some people here took the position that your drawings had nothing to do with my photos which is what got me excited. Listing credit on them would surely eliminate any issue like that. Harmony restored.
Is that cool?


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 105 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Blue Moon by Trent © 2007
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Hosted by Freeforum.ca, get your free forum now! TOS | Support Forums | Report a violation
buy web visitors
MultiForums powered by echoPHP phpBB MultiForums