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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:44 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
He's mistaken?

We took umpteen pages to show you that your hairline crack wasn't the same identical inherited scratch in the casting of the TM.


It is the same crack....there's a secondary extension that extends further on the TD, that's all. And it's there on the VP as well. Same place, same crack. They line up perfectly at the same distance from the rear tube end. Same angle, same width, same crack. How you can say they are not the same belies your ability to recognize features in detail.

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If I hadn't mentioned how many "scratches" there were (read: actual physical cracks) on the other side of the mask (and how they weren't inherited but were cracks/flaws in the physical structure of the TD), how many pages would you have allowed to continue before you finally decided to "move outwards" to cover other aspects of the TD?


You don't read do you. There is the main crack that is shared on the TD and TM. From that crack there are stress cracks coming off it on the TD from flexion of the rear of the mask. It's not rocket science, but they are the same crack. So that argument doesn't make sense. Just because the stress lines don't appear on the TM doesn't take away from the fact that the TD has a real crack there and it is along feature that appears in the casting on the right side of the TM. Whether it's just a crack along that feature or not is open to debate and I stated that but again you don't read.

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Further, having these castings firsthand yourself has absolutely not made your photo comparisons any more accurate, nor have they given validity to suppositions like "the TD fathered the ESB masks".


Well it's just that, a supposition and I tried to show why I thought that might be the case. But I never said it was fact, did I. I provided it as a hypothesis and tried to show why I thought that. You can be offended by it or discuss it rationally. It is your choice.

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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:48 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
Thomas, sometimes you can be too close to something to see it clearly. Instead of drawing your little doodles in MSPaint, why not let the images speak for themselves? As far as the crux of what started this whole thing...you either apologize or don't. You do not come on anywhere and give some half hearted apology for one thing, yet not another. Again, very childish and immature.


Well sorry but you've not examined these castings firsthand and you are mistaken. And what exactly should I apologize to you for? Being in disagreement?

I am not mistaken. You've shown us the weak evidence you have found, and we showed you why it was flawed. You cannot accept that the case you presented before us here fell flat...on numerous fronts. When you DO actually find a similarity, I will be glad to see it. Until then, your TD case is weak. You can't admit that you just have an awkward casting and let it go. It did not father anything. It is different than any of the others you have show it compared to. Your zeal, such as it has been, has always been to prove "your" side. "My .... is better than this" "This casting has this 'matching' paint drip from that". You lack objectivity.

As Mac said, I do not need to handle the helmets to use your evidence. These are the photos YOU'VE provided. The things you want us to see, just as with the AA comps, only counter the point you are trying to make.

For the record, there is nothing you need to apologize to me for, I was pointing to your "apology" to Vadermonkey.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:50 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
SithLord wrote:
Mac, show me where I state or imply that Mike is a recaster.

And I stated that what he said later on about the SL was later on, didn't I. Maybe you should read that again.


You know, I honestly don't care what you're trying to sell. That is immaterial. Thanks for the misdirection. My getting the SL/TD initials swapped does not mean that the real issue of you maligning Mike disappears.


It's not a misdirection. You were accusing me of accusing Mike of being a recaster and I'd like proof of where I state that. And I maligned Mike? He's the one who betrayed my trust. I apologized for getting the timeline wrong. But you won't let it be. And it doesn't even concern you.

Quote:
You want the quote? If Mike's inquiry had said, "I would like to incorporate the VP into my Vader offerings" or "offer VP-based ESB stunt helmets." then I'd understand your reluctance. Your "no offense" rejection was based on the supposition that the VP would be combined with other castings he'd offer.

SithLord's email to Vadermonkey wrote:
Hi Mike,

Well I didn't really offer castings in that sense...there were only two or three...
No offense, but if I did ever offer the SL, I wouldn't sell it so that someone could combine it with other castings. As a collector I prefer to see it stand alone in someone's collection as it was meant to be.

regards,

Thomas


Read the read. Emphasis mine. Your own words.



Uhhhhh, so? I stated a preference that he not combine it with other castings. I'm entitled to state that. But, as usual, you take that to your own ends and make it out as an accusation of recasting. It's funny, because Mike didn't take it that way when I told him, so why should you?

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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:07 am 
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And how MANY pages and posts and images did it take to finally get you to finally post a photo? The photos you posted made the SL look proportionately better (10 feet?) and the TM (4 feet) look worse. Looking back at that and seeing that SL copies have been sold to people now?

Gloat? For shame, Thomas. We showed you that your crack was at a different angle than that on the TM. So you said the TM's scratch was different, so the TM must have been incorrect. Your mask is so riddled with cracks on the neck that you did not reveal to the public because it had to be the TM that was wrong. Well, it turned out you had a physical crack over the inherited scratch. That area of the neck happens to be a structural weak spot to flexing.

I don't need people to back me up, Thomas. Your own photos have been making my point sufficiently.

Haven't you you not noticed the lack of people who agree with you in this thread?

Take some effort? Have you been so busy denying my viewpoints that you forgot the comprehensive photo analysis of the scratch of the TD vs the TM? You ACKNOWLEDGED that I took the time. Cor blimey.

No. YOU back your own statements, not with flawed comparisons. ESPECIALLY now in light of the fact that all this trumpeting how great your masks are in light of having made sales.

The Den is not Thomas Board of Supposition where and all participants have to burn their time and energy in disputing your claims - otherwise those suppositions get passed for fact.

Like what images, you say, before I accuse you of something else? Let's see... they're in the thread... wait, they've been removed. By Thomas.

Okay, let's check this other thread. Another umpteen pages long thread. The Moderators warned you very specifically not to remove pictures. But they're gone.

Removing pictures removes the visual context and renders much of the text very difficult to follow. It's a great way of rendering past arguments invalid.

I've gone dozens upon dozens of images, correct comps and pages upon pages of posts with you. I've debated your superiority suppositions enough.

I don't want to derail this thread to revamp the TD Discussion thread from a few months ago. The TD was discussed and Thomas' claims disputed across twenty pages. Twenty is enough.

This thread is about an apology. I agree with Gonz. It looks half-assed and insincere.

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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:14 am 
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SithLord wrote:
Uhhhhh, so? I stated a preference that he not combine it with other castings. I'm entitled to state that. But, as usual, you take that to your own ends and make it out as an accusation of recasting. It's funny, because Mike didn't take it that way when I told him, so why should you?



It doesn't read that way.

Your wording, your prerogative.

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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:16 am 
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Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
I am not mistaken. You've shown us the weak evidence you have found, and we showed you why it was flawed. You cannot accept that the case you presented before us here fell flat...on numerous fronts. When you DO actually find a similarity, I will be glad to see it. Until then, your TD case is weak. You can't admit that you just have an awkward casting and let it go. It did not father anything.


Maybe you should read then what I wrote about that idea and get back to me. Get your facts straight. Do I have to quote myself yet again from that thread?

Quote:
It is different than any of the others you have show it compared to. Your zeal, such as it has been, has always been to prove "your" side. "My .... is better than this" "This casting has this 'matching' paint drip from that". You lack objectivity.


No you lack the ability to read what I write. For example, please quote me where I state "My....is better than this". And if I show what I think is similarity in the paint pattern, I let you be the judge. But if I think it is the same, because I've examined them in hand, then that is my prerogative.

Quote:
As Mac said, I do not need to handle the helmets to use your evidence. These are the photos YOU'VE provided. The things you want us to see, just as with the AA comps, only counter the point you are trying to make.


Anyone can see the similarities in the AA comps I showed. Sure there are differences and I recognize that, but I still find the similarities compelling and that's my choice. And I gave my reasons why.

Image

Same crack, just an extension forward on the TD but it's still the same crack. How you cannot see that I do not know.

Here's a closeup of the VP crack. You wouldn't even know this was something shared in common on the TD/TM/VP if I didn't point it out. It would be a detail with no relevance.

Image

And on the right side....

Image

Again the left side...they are the same....

Image

The paint pattern is there...

Image

Whether it means anything is another thing. I suggested a relationship between the TD and the TM/VP and was shot down for it. But it was only a suggestion and I tried to show why I thought that. You can take offense or provide your point of view. I can only guess what it means. Perhaps seeing a master VP will give me a better picture.

If you want to fight about things go right ahead. Have fun. I am here to discuss Vader castings and see what they have in common or not with each other and how that relates to the screen helmet. Do you mind if I do that please? Or would you rather continue to make this like it used to be on the RPF. You argued with me there for no reason and you bring the same crap here. Maybe because I dish out the same crap here as on the RPF I am sure you think. But as with Mac I see no original contributions from you in regard to discussion of authenticity.

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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:18 am 
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Oh no, not again.

Twenty more pages.

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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:21 am 
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6 pages of debate will turn into 20.

I think the people concerned have had their say , we have been here many times before, and it seems what I posted about being civil got overlooked.

Locked.

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