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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:59 am 
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I'm not just basing my remarks on the Kermit photo and really, I'm just playing devil's advocate here and urging others to keep an open mind about this topic. My points were all made in order to keep everyone in check as Anson's post seemed to me to be a declaration that the production used shins were fiberglass and the vac formed ones were post production units. I cherish and believe Brian's knowledge as well, but we have some definate unknowns present that prevent an answer either way.

With regards to the Kermit pics and whether those shins are indeed plastic, yes, I agree that fiberglass can be laid thin. I would also contend that fiberglass that thin would be extremely brittle and an edge such as that, at the flex point of the ankle would most probably be very jagged, cracked, and/or broken after use. The pictures show a pretty smooth, thin edge.....again, based on that pic, albiet small, the shin appears to be plastic.

Mac, I apologize if I misunderstood your post, but I believe you were speaking of an undercut when you described the 'z'. Undercuts are present in many vac formed pieces. The most extreme would be the stormtrooper face plate. Removing a vac formed piece from a buck with an undercut is related to the shape of the piece formed, the thickness/flexibility of the material after vac forming, and the ability to cut the piece from the buck and the unmolded material. The part can also change depending on who is cutting the form from the buck and how it is done each time. You do not have to have a vertical line mold to the base in order to vac form a part; such a small lip on the shins would be very easy to do with an undercut. Again, I'll apologize in advance if I misread your post.

Even if the Kermit photo was not available, there is other evidence that suggest the shins could have been vac formed for production. We have all seen the PSOL shins and I would also point out that in the same offering from them was a vac formed threepio shoe in plastic. As I posted previously, both threepio's shoes and shorts were vac formed in plastic for the ANH production (no idea about color), as well as the stunt torso. Even though we are dealing with two different characters, it does reveal that for threepio, the production used both fiberglass and vac formed parts for the hero suit. More importantly though, with regards to the threepio stunt torso, it reveals that they made a vac formed part that was originally cast in fiberglass. Why would we assume that they would not do the same thing for a smaller, easier part to vac form such as the shins??

Anyway, food for thought. I hope someday some reference becomes available so that we know for sure, but until then I'll enjoy the journey. And Anson, when I wrote 'ruffled my feathers', I did not mean that your post offended me in any way, I just meant that it woke me up and made me contribute. Not a bad thing. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:22 am 
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Bobasfett,

I thoroughly enjoyed reading your third paragraph. That was a well written and plausible explanation of the Kermit shins and what we're seeing. Though brief, it was one of the best reads I've had in a while. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:38 am 
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Thanks Mac....I also meant to reafirm your thoughts on the vac forming of parts during production as well; I also believe that they were either done over the fiberglass pulls or the plaster positives. If vac formed post production, most likely over the fiberglass pulls; if made during/pre production, could be either although I would lean towards the plaster positives.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:37 am 
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bobasfett wrote:
Thanks Mac....I also meant to reafirm your thoughts on the vac forming of parts during production as well; I also believe that they were either done over the fiberglass pulls or the plaster positives. If vac formed post production, most likely over the fiberglass pulls; if made during/pre production, could be either although I would lean towards the plaster positives.


Without being there 30 years ago, I agree with you. All we can do is examine the available photos, screen captures, etc. and make the best hypothesis and observations possible, and to rely on fellow Den members to look out for our blind spots. :wink:

I think it's more plausible, as a result of your explanation, that the Kermit shins are vacformed. It would be reaching, though, to say that this means that Prowse wore vacformed shins. Photos from that era that could corroborate the vacform theory are scarce, but let's remain positive and see what surfaces as a result of this thread....


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:49 am 
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Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
One thing I would like to know about Krmit's suit is this: With the air of utter vagueness around what was and wasn't screen used, how do we know that he received an entirely screen used suit? I doubt he knows.


Well he knows where he got it from and from whom and there's little doubt it was the screen used suit. Remember that he got it through his work for DP studios and they were given the screen suit to make castings. You could make comparisons all day and that suit matches up in every respect. There would not have been any other suits made prior to that. Brian can correct me but I think he said there was just the one suit kept under lock and key every night...or two?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:52 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
Also, no-one has been able to answer my question: if the shins in the Kermit shot are vacformed plastic, then why just the shins and not the armor as well? "It's thin; therefore it is plastic." Well, have you never heard of a thin fiberglass application before?

Moreover, The Prop Store at one point supposedly sold screen-used ANH tusks. Somewhere in a Den thread, those in-the-know discussed how they came to believe why they weren't screen-used but made perhaps after the production of ANH.


Well the armor was fiberglass, and I say that at least insofar as I think Brian and Kermit would agree.

Well I was the one who said the Prop store tusks were not accurate...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:58 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
I think it's more plausible, as a result of your explanation, that the Kermit shins are vacformed. It would be reaching, though, to say that this means that Prowse wore vacformed shins. Photos from that era that could corroborate the vacform theory are scarce, but let's remain positive and see what surfaces as a result of this thread....


Well Prowse signs often so I'm sure someone can ask him. I used to have his number maybe I'll try it again...but usually he only accepts snailmail :pale
But again we don't know for sure until we either talk with Prowse or Mollo. And of course if Brian saw fiberglass shins being used onset there must have been production fiberglass shins, but at some point were vacuformed shins used? Unless we can find out from someone who was there throughout the production, we can at least be confident from Brian's account that at some point fiberglass shins were used.


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