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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:39 pm 
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Rick used the fine finishing fiberglass cloth on the domes, like as it could have been seen, but not the the faces. At least not the 2 or 3 I handled.

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Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:02 am 
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Oh, thank God, I thought I was going to have to come back here and tell everyone this thing wasn't a screen used hero. :pale

Between the thick, rounded edge of the neck, the overall softness of the casting (totally unlike the other helmet, which is sharp and defined) and the
paint job which really doesn't match anything. I actually considered the thought that maybe he made himself the helmet or as someone said he took a
tour helmet and reworked it. It definitely appears to have been made to be worn, originally anyway, but I wouldn't want to wear it as you can't see in
it and you can't breathe.

There you go VM, that's what I make of this helmet.

Man, I'm afraid to go to work, I'll come back home and there will be three more pages to read. Glad I have the day off tomorrow.

No Humor Man wrote:
And Darth Obsession - nice spotting of that pretty distinctive painted nick on the neck on that helmet.


Thank you, sir. I appreciate that.

Lambotour wrote:
No Humor Man wrote:

And Darth Obsession - nice spotting of that pretty distinctive painted nick on the neck on that helmet.


Only issue with that is that the clapperboard helmet IS the Hero helmet and the chamber helmet and it didn't look anything like that helmet at the end of filming. It may have sustained damage later on though, who knows.


Are you trying to say that the clapperboard Vader and the meditation chamber Vader are the same one? Because from where I'm sitting clapperboard is clearly the Planet Hollywood Vader. You can see the damage to the cheekbone and whisker and whatever you call that other area and there is damage at the bottom front edge of the neck that can also be seen on the PHV.

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John


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:20 am 
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For you guys that had the chance to meet and or interview Ron Punter what has he had to say about the mask he owns. It's an interesting piece but I'm curious about the back story to it and what work or alterations he did to it.

-Dwayne


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:07 am 
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Sith-Smith wrote:
For you guys that had the chance to meet and or interview Ron Punter what has he had to say about the mask he owns. It's an interesting piece but I'm curious about the back story to it and what work or alterations he did to it.

-Dwayne


Ron said that it has been used by Prowse in ESB. It was in his paintshop for conversion into ROTJ, but it kind of "slipped through". Later, when Ron told the production about it, they said he can keep it.

In one of the posted images I've just noticed a little hole on top of the faceplate, close to the slit where the top strap goes through. What if there were no cast tabs on that faceplate, but original working tabs which have been removed prior to conversion into ESB?


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:56 am 
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vadermania wrote:
In one of the posted images I've just noticed a little hole on top of the faceplate, close to the slit where the top strap goes through. What if there were no cast tabs on that faceplate, but original working tabs which have been removed prior to conversion into ESB?

That's my thought as well, because they do not seem to match up with the screen used ANH tab hole placements, or there would be a lot more hole impressions. That's why I made the comment that it might have been one of the 2 other ANH helmets. It was mentioned that they were converted, so why not. Though, it could be the placement distance as seen with the tour helmet brackets.


And Darth Obsession - the softness is clearly the result of thick paint. Maybe that's even the reason it wasn't converted to RotJ in the first place, because it had been painted too thickly, making it soft. Of course, that's just speculation on my part. However, the way the TM helmet was painted, we know for a fact that thick paint can hide all sorts of details and sharpness.


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:37 am 
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During my conversation with Ron he also mentioned that he painted all the OT Vader helmets plus he was responsible for the gold plating on 3PO, the ark and the headpiece of the staff of Ra.

On Rons faceplate I have also noticed that there are damaged spots underneath the final coat of paint that were just painted over (particularly around the eyes, on the nosebridge). Taking a closer look at the cut profile of PCV mounting ring itself, I would also guess that this could be the Hoth Rebel command center faceplate, because the higher rim in the back could indicate that the dome angle is different compared to the other ESB helmets.


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:49 am 
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BA100583 wrote:
Hi all,

Note also that Ron's helmet contains a fine-weave finishing layer of fiberglass, visible on the inside of the face. I have never seen another Vader face like this - film used, or tour. Where Ron's helmet fits in is a bit of a mystery.

Best
Brandon


Hi Brandon, on a closer look it appears that this is not a fine-weave finishing layer of fiberglass, but some sort of real cloth, because the surface below (some yellow spots from glue or so) shines through the fine holes. Perhaps this was added to keep the sweat from dripping on the chest armour. On some other spots you could get a glimpse of that typical criscross fiberglass material that was used on the other helmets.

I'd also love to see the real colour of the eye lenses - it seems like some coloured gel was attached behind.


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:53 pm 
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It would actually be an interesting experiment to try and pair that face mask with a dome, then, to see how it sits.

Regarding the lenses... do you mean similar to the way it has been described for the screen used ANH and the original lenses that Darth Jones were allowed to take home?


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:09 pm 
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BA100583 wrote:
Rick used the fine finishing fiberglass cloth on the domes, like as it could have been seen, but not the the faces. At least not the 2 or 3 I handled.

Best
Brandon


Thanks Brandon, I didn't know that. I was struck by the coincidence through that Ron and Rick's are the only helmets (I assume) that used fibreglass cloth.


vadermania wrote:
Hi Brandon, on a closer look it appears that this is not a fine-weave finishing layer of fiberglass, but some sort of real cloth, because the surface below (some yellow spots from glue or so) shines through the fine holes. Perhaps this was added to keep the sweat from dripping on the chest armour. On some other spots you could get a glimpse of that typical criscross fiberglass material that was used on the other helmets.

I'd also love to see the real colour of the eye lenses - it seems like some coloured gel was attached behind.


Hi Tom, the lenses on Ron's facemask looked yellowy-brownish to me. That texture on the plastic isn't from a gel, but a clear dye or glass paint that's been applied to the inside. It's 'fish-eyed' all over the place as I assume the plastic wasn't cleaned well enough first, but if you apply this stuff properly you get a nice clear and even coating that looks just like a coloured plastic once it's dry. I've seen some close up photos of the PA stunt eyes from the outside that seem to show faint brown streaks just like Ron's helmet from the outside, although they don't show up at all in the auction photo at the start of this thread.

(Thanks for posting those black and whites by the way!)


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:54 pm 
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BA100583 wrote:
The ESB stunt helmet, and one other privately owned ESB movie helmet, are the only two helmets I have seen with correct ESB grills. They have mounting rings that match each other, but do not match the MOTM helmet. This is the reason I believe the MOTM helmet is a tour helmet rather than film used.

Best,
Brandon


Brandon, the MOTM faceplate has certain details that are present on the TM (supposedly cast from a ESB production mold) and also direct casts from the RB mold that match screenused faceplates. From what I can tell of tour faceplates, most of the details have been cleaned up. One distinct detail on the MOTM faceplate is the paint drip that runs down the neck. I've not seen that on any tour faceplate although, of course, I haven't seen every tour faceplate either. Did the MOTM have tabs from what you remember?

Darth Obsession wrote:
Are you trying to say that the clapperboard Vader and the meditation chamber Vader are the same one?


Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. If you look around on one of the hundreds of threads that are on the Den, you should find the proof. Unless of course it was discussed privately which could also be the case, but either way they are one in the same.


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:45 pm 
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Ron's faceplate is largely fine weave finishing fiberglass cloth, but it may actually be a "top layer" on top of a typical fiberglass and it may only be around the outer edges of the mask (perhaps where it would contact the skin.) I don't think there is any real cloth involved.

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Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:30 pm 
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Brandon, Is there any chance you can post a pic of the 'hero' or any other ESBs without a dome? Even from back in the day? Or anyone else out there that might have this? I'm not interested in the mount, I am interested in the forehead area.

BA100583 wrote:
Ron's faceplate is largely fine weave finishing fiberglass cloth, but it may actually be a "top layer" on top of a typical fiberglass and it may only be around the outer edges of the mask (perhaps where it would contact the skin.) I don't think there is any real cloth involved.

Best
Brandon


Also, Brandon, when you say fine weave finishing fiberglass cloth, are you referring to this that I circled or something else?

Image


Lambotour wrote:

Darth Obsession wrote:
Are you trying to say that the clapperboard Vader and the meditation chamber Vader are the same one?


Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. If you look around on one of the hundreds of threads that are on the Den, you should find the proof. Unless of course it was discussed privately which could also be the case, but either way they are one in the same.


Lambotour, sorry I do not actually have time to hunt the threads, if you can tell me a specific thread, I'll be glad to go check it out. But in lieu of that here's why I believe clapperboard is the PHV and not the meditation chamber Vader. I've posted the best picture I have seen of the clapperboard Vader.

First, is the damage to the left cheek. While it is difficult to see details on the CBV, it is possible to tell that something is going on there. Just like in the photo to the right, that area of the helmet is not in direct light and so the damage is hard to see. But we know it is definitely there in the picture on the right. Looking back at the CBV picture, it is possible to see areas of gray in the black that include some horizontal features. There is also something breaking the light reflection on the face of that cheek, which should run nearly top to bottom uninterrupted. There is also areas of lighter gray on the upper mandible in the exact location of where the damage to that is on the PHV.

Next, at the base of the neck, below the chin grille, but slightly to the right is a series of features approximately 1 inch wide, the most prominent of which is a horizontal gouge in the paint, approximately 3/8 of an inch long that has a slight dip in the center, like a flat chevron, that then at the far right changes direction downward to the edge. I can see this feature clearly in all three images. At the opposite end of this series of features is a small triangular shape that starts at the edge of the neck and goes inward approximately 1/8 of an inch. While it is somewhat harder to discern on the bottom picture, I can definitely see it on the upper right picture.

Next, the black terminator line on the top of the nose does not line up with the edge of the notched bridge between the eyes, it lands outboard at least 1/16 of an inch or more on both helmets.

Finally, as to the meditation chamber Vader, there is no painted over cavity at the edge of the neck in the location seen on that helmet on the CBV. There is a small dent in the edge, right at the apex of the bulge in the neck, but the cavity I pointed out is more than a quarter of an inch beyond the apex to the right of it.

ImageImageImageImage

So, having said that, what is it about the clapperboard Vader that makes you think it's the meditation chamber Vader?

---
John


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:36 am 
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Hey Darth Obsession
Thought this pic was cool to show facemask.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:11 pm 
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That is a cool pic. But I was looking for a close up of a face mask without the dome.


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 Post subject: Re: On the subject of the Christie's - PIH 2012 Helmet
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:27 pm 
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Yes, I felt it was time for a new avatar.

For my research has shown that it is not the C-PIH. It is a nice helmet. Very nicely done and bares a strong resemblance to C-PIH, but alas just a tour helmet.


Image


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John


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