Sorry, but I just gotta post this!! Copied from Rebel Scum forum, quote from my good ol buddy Jack Fauth.

Well I would consider who exactly refers to a clique. I could name two people who do. That's it. What difference does that make to discussion of prop replicas? There is Rebelscum, Movie Prop Forum, Replica Prop Forum, The Prop Den, etc.. We all share in a community. So just because we know something about Vader that makes us a clique bent on damaging the reputation of eFX on account of a C-scar misunderstanding? That is just plain silly. Within any community there are those who are enthusiasts about a particular prop, this place is no different, and the RPF is no different. Just because Vader enthusiasts have heated arguments doesn't mean they have bad intentions. And there were just as many arguments about accuracy when it comes to TK helmets or other Star Wars helmets.

If I decide to contact eFX about a perceived problem, I in no way represent the interests of this forum. Neither did you. Just because one or two people put a label on the membership of this forum, doesn't mean we automatically share the burden of the errors of our ways. I speak for myself, whether it is here, on Rebelscum, or on the RPF. Sure, I've been guilty of labeling groups at certain times, but that is just human nature.

I guess my point is that there are problems and mistakes being made on both sides here, so putting all the blame on yourself just isn't right, or worth the headache. Just some friendly advice.

Actually I wouldn't mind if that happened to me because then I could add my own tusks.

At least they are not broken off. It would be easy for eFX to just mail the guy a set of tusks to attach.

The ugly term "clique" was also mentioned here, but you can see a few "nice" posts above and after that too...

Well, as happens with any licensed product, LFL makes sure that there is something that will permit them to tell that the item is a replica and not an original so there are invariably tells or slight changes made to that end. The MR ROTS is a really good example because MR claimed that it was unchanged from the original and they had a pull from the original production mold. Well, it is different than the original in very subtle ways, but ways in which someone would be able to tell that it is an MR ROTS and not an original. You can even look at LFL authorized auctions such as that one of the ESB Vader helmet and they did everything they could to make it as cleaned up as possible and even permanently mounted the helmet to the mask so it couldn't be molded.

Naturally any licensee will say that it is just as it would come out of the mold, but of course they need to take steps to ensure that someone won't try to pass off one as an original casting.

Most of the time collectors wouldn't notice or care. And even if there were slight changes to the eFX helmet, it is still an outstanding collectible.

All of that scratchy stuff is/ was on the DJ but, like it is indicated here, the DJ is also painted and some of those scratchy things are going to get de-emphasized. But that C-scar thing was the same on DJ and SL.

The only things I actively removed on the DJ were a weird drip down the neck (originally from super glue I am told - to hold a tusk on) and some weird little spikey thing inside the nose.

Beyond that I did not even sand the surface before painting. I very briefly used a 1000 grit paste, ever so lightly, and did the painting after that.

But the C-scar thing was there. I always thought it was a bit of paint too until I saw the close up photos here.

The DJ is in a box for moving but I'll take it out at some point and see what more I can see.

As for the efX helmet I think it is pretty gorgeous. And there is for certain more paint on it than what I put on the DJ - DJ has just little more than one coat really but the efX helmets are I'm sure pretty blasted with black. Which is a good thing for stability, luster, beauty, etc. And the scratches are so small on the ANH that paint will quickly compromise them. Remember too that a lot of the surface texture on the ANH helmet was FROM paint!!!! Weird, huh?! Me, I have my doubts that LFL ever said to dumb anything down. When you go into a large production it is very hard to keep the piece from getting a little bit homogenized just from efforts to make it sturdy and attractive. A kind of smoothing out here and there will happen with no question.

I personally cannot see any conspiracy anywhere.

I wish I had one but I wish I had limitless cash too - the two go hand in hand!!!

I can't really imagine lucasfilm caring that much to be honest. The mr difference could be explained by the difference in mass production and trying to create the one perfect piece. For the esb they probably just wanted to make it nice for the lucky bidder.

No matter what I say I just only seems to make everything worse... I'll just shut up now.

You have tusks better than the eFX tusks?

Also, I really don't want to add fuel to the bonfire of egos going back and forth... But here are some preachy thoughts;

The people that defend the eFX helmet as being somehow more accurate than, or on par with a direct casting are wrong. But nobody official is saying that.
So I think that stems from those people's perception of the Vader elitists loosing their control over who gets accurate castings. Feelings of resentment are common with people who think they are entitled to be offered whatever they desire.

The people who point out the clean up or "flaws" on the eFX are not wrong. But how they present the information is very poor. It very often comes across as accusing eFX of misrepresenting the product, or resentment that due to the clean up they do not have a helmet as accurate as the Vader elite. Official statements have been made about the clean up. If you think you are going to find all the warts and dings after stripping away the paint, you are wrong.
Additionally, the paint on the dome is extremely think. I think before certain people make assertions that the widow's peak was modified they should do some research first. It is possible China fucked that area up but you can't put forth your opinions and observations forward as fact. Furthermore if it is a fact that this area is not right, the truth is that it was not intentionally modified.

That's it. All people just need to chill and approach things differently. For the people wishing to post the sure-to-be-forthcoming thread pointing out all the details the eFX lacks, here is my advice;
Approach it as informative instead of aggressive. Most people are already on-board with the idea that even cleaned up the eFX is a swell helmet.
If certain people want to compare their castings to the eFX to show how "flawed" the eFX is and how much more accurate their casting is, that is one thing. Even though its true most people will just see it as ego. I believe most of you are familiar with Gino?

If people want to compare their castings to the eFX just to show what exactly was removed, that is another matter.
There is a very fine line between the two. In fact really the only difference is how the thread author approaches it. And there will be people on the "pro eFX/anti prop den" side of things who will overreact even if the thread is handled the right way. People don't generally deal well with having their personal flaws pointed out to them and most people feel the same about their prized, expensive possessions; even if they know its true. Its just crazy human nature.
Just be as generous as you can be with explaining the reason for your thread to these people. It will be very hard to explain to them that you are not saying "mine's better than yours" but "here is the truth"

Personally I think a thread like that is best left off the RPF since it can only go wrong. Call that censorship if you like but I just think there are more people on the RPF tired of having drama spill over from other forums and long historys most dont know about or care about. Most people are just ok with knowing clean up was done without getting into the specifics. For the people that do care, there will be this future thread. And it is sure to get just as nasty as all the other threads just like it because people are stupid assholes when it comes down to it.
Such is the nature of a forum.

Btw Carsten, I heard about what happened and I am glad you have gained perspective about it.

Hells no! Half the stuff I've learned here over the last ...how ever long lol... is cos you asked it first, seriously wouldn't even worry about it - and I say that having worked at the bitchy end of the music biz chain lol.

Makes sense.

(sorry... I culdn't shut up)

The differences on the MR ROTS are clearly intentional and not a mistake on account of mass production. The neck shape, the rear undercut, the top mounting disc, the U-shaped part of the nose, all intentionally altered. Or at least, I do not see how those changes could come about by accident or through some flaw in the production process. Permanently fixing the ESB helmet to the mask so that it couldn't be removed without damaging it isn't "nice" for a collector. And from what I know, LFL cares a lot about original props being replicated, or replicas being passed off as originals, as evidenced by their occasional intervention in auctions (although granted in more recent years they've been less proactive).

I like to think so, although I've not yet compared them directly, side-by-side with eFX tusks, but plan to.



Well said, and that is precisely the dilemma. How can one discuss the differences without coming across as "mine is better than yours". Comparisons will invariably imply that.



Interesting philosophy. I can't really disagree with it. But don't you think at least some percentage of eFX owners might be curious to see how their helmets compare with fan-made ones? I couldn't see myself burying my head in a sandbox with the complacency that I have the best helmet out there without actually wanting to confirm it. And if I didn't, then the search would continue.....

Well you've done the study so I'll bow to your knowledge on the MR. I do think that the Esb is a particular case though with it being a charity auction and with the people primarily bidding to make a donation rather than being die hard collectors. So what was called for was a presentational piece that looked good rather than a scruffy pile of fibreglass. Out of interest do you know how the mask was fixed together? Would it really be that difficult to take it apart? Soak the lot in acetone or something...

Anyway going off topic a bit. Sorry guys!