It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:19 am

All times are UTC


THE PROP DEN is primarily a Darth Vader Prop Discussion Board, but we also deal with other Star Wars Props as well as Prop Replicas from other movies. If you do not yet have an account, set one up, sign in and jump into the Vader Prop Discussions!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Enter your Message here
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 90
I think the other thing that throws me off is the differences in the lighting in various shots makes the grey/silver/graphite/gunmetal appear very different. On the Tantive IV when he's talking to Leia, the cheek looks absolutely silver but the neck looks grey. It's almost impossible to nail down. I suppose it would be different if we had the prop to refer to in person. I really think I'll err on the side of darker just so it reads in person the way it does on screen most of the time.

_________________
http://www.costumebot.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 485
Location: London, UK
I'm just wondering whether the graphite paint on the TIE helmet could be a big clue to the metallic paint on Vader? Both black helmets had these highlights added for the same reason, presumably by the same team of people?

Jez, would there be any chance of some more good daylight shots of that TIE helmet at some point? :cool:


Jeremy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:11 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 am
Posts: 10908
Location: Denmark
Anyone working with metallic paints know that the finish really cannot be trusted unless you know for certain that things were painted properly and under ideal conditions, which they certainly weren't for the Star Wars production. It was a slap-job that leaves many questions unanswered. However, I think it's probably a safe bet they used the exact same paint for the ESB Vader, so that's basically the metallic look you should go for in a paint and just experiment applying it, possibly poorly mixed and doing an uneven application. THAT's your ANH paint.

_________________
Check us out at Facebook!
http://www.facebook.com/ThePropDen


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 90
Interesting. Do any of you have any insight into the amount of paint that would be needed? While some paints come in bigger quantities, the Tamiya paints I've found are in 11 or 22 ml containers. I'm just trying to figure out how much to purchase.

_________________
http://www.costumebot.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
It depends on how thick you're going to pour on the paint (go sparse) and how thoroughly you mix the paint before you realize all the paint "powder" has sunk to the bottom. For the metallic gray, I honestly don't see you needing more than one 22 ml. You could potentially get by with a smaller jar.

_________________
Cordially,

- Mac
( Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sculptingvader/ )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 90
Thanks, Mac. I figured as much but I wanted to be sure before getting started. Nothing worse than getting 3/4 of the way through and running out only to find the second container purchased is a slightly different shade.

_________________
http://www.costumebot.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
Here's a tip. Start with the frontmost parts of the face first. The parts that are obscured by the dome and by shadow should take lesser priority. You can always go back to them later. Do the skull last. Just paint enough past the eyebrows and past the eyes on the side of the head. The cheek surfaces, bridge of the nose, certain tubes, and front of the neck are important. Go thin; try some dry-brush strokes. You don't need a lot of paint to do that. Don't go too dark with the metallic gray.

Actually, if you like, once you have your initial gloss black, you could simply practice with Folk Art acrylics. If you like the look, and if you're not wearing this outdoors, you might end up keeping the paint job. Removal is a matter of warm water and soap - though there are some acrylics marked "outdoor formula" (or some similar wording) so when the paint dries and cures, I don't know how resistant it is to soap and warm water should you wish to remove it. Always test the paint first.

_________________
Cordially,

- Mac
( Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sculptingvader/ )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
And, by the way, "Gunmetal" is probably not the right color for ANH. Gunmetal is generally a medium-dark to dark metallic gray.

What you're looking for is a light-to-medium metallic gray. FolkArt's 662 Sterling Silver is a good starting point, and can be darkened by mixing in a few drops of 661 Metallic Sequin Black.

_________________
Cordially,

- Mac
( Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sculptingvader/ )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 90
Thanks for the tips, Mac. I am looking to display the helmet but I also plan on wearing it from time to time once I get the rest of my gear together. I'd like the paint job to be durable enough to be worn.

I was planning on attempting my own mixture of Tamiya colors. I was thinking of adding a little of their Aluminum paint to the gunmetal. Do you think that would still be way too dark? I've used what's left of my base coat paint to spray a base coat on a sample piece so I can try out various mixes as I go along. I'd like to approximate the screen used prop's paint job but I don't want to go so light with the metallic grey that it looks too silver in person out in the daylight.

_________________
http://www.costumebot.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
freakengine wrote:
Thanks for the tips, Mac. I am looking to display the helmet but I also plan on wearing it from time to time once I get the rest of my gear together. I'd like the paint job to be durable enough to be worn.

I was planning on attempting my own mixture of Tamiya colors. I was thinking of adding a little of their Aluminum paint to the gunmetal. Do you think that would still be way too dark? I've used what's left of my base coat paint to spray a base coat on a sample piece so I can try out various mixes as I go along. I'd like to approximate the screen used prop's paint job but I don't want to go so light with the metallic grey that it looks too silver in person out in the daylight.


I'd stay bright with the metallic gray highlights. Various production photographs and outdoor photographs suggest something that is light-to-medium.

It's possible that whatever looks natural on R2D2 might possibly look natural on Vader.

Image

_________________
Cordially,

- Mac
( Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sculptingvader/ )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 90
Thanks again, Mac. That's a nice comparison but I'm not sure I want to go as bright as R2's dome. I will certainly consider it, though.

_________________
http://www.costumebot.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
Well, brightness is all perspective when it comes to metallic paints in movies, due to:

1. Density of metallic particles within the paint - this also depends on how many applications of metallic gray you added. The more paint you add, the brighter it can get.

2. How much light is bearing down on the prop, and how much of it is reflecting into the camera lens

3. The aperature of the lens and the film sensitivity (the density of light-sensitive silver-halide salts in the film)

4. Post processing

5. Modern-day computer-aided "enhancement" (e.g. Special Edition films)

6. Your TV/LCD panel set.

The lighting of Vader is similar to R2 in that last comp I did. There is a lot of ambient light in the hall ways. Again, it also has much to do with how much light is being reflected into the lens.

You may also want to consider this image. While it's not screen-used, it was likely made by the same prop people and of the same materials, paint, etc. Note that this is studio lighting by camera and not on-set with a movie-camera (i.e. not a screen shot). Notice how bright the paint is.

Image

This image is in darthvaderv's excellent thread:

very-brief-picture-guide-to-ot-vader-differences-vt1316.html

_________________
Cordially,

- Mac
( Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sculptingvader/ )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 90
Those are all good points, Mac, and well understood. I certainly value your suggestions. It really just boils down to a decision making process for me. I don't think I'll be able to make a decision until I mix a variety of shades and tones in person. That's why I'm going to try and mix a color myself. It certainly helps to observe a variety of sources and hear a variety of opinions, but it will end up being a personal decision. I'd like to look at my choices in a variety of lighting situations, including flash photography and direct sunlight because that's how the helmet will eventually be seen (unless I can talk someone into following me around with a lighting package :) ) and then decide.

I'm not sure the objective color is absolutely identifiable just because of the fact that we don't have an in-person prop to observe and no evidence of the actual paint used. For all the reasons you listed (and more) the paint as viewed in stills and on motion picture film stock is an interpretation, albeit an interpretation of light, shadow, digital (in the case of the digital grading done on the recent DVDs) and chemical processes. I suppose the argument could follow that everything we see is an interpretation and that would be valid but we can easily stray into the realm of philosophy on that one.

BTW, I work for a high-end manufacturer of very specialized film and TV lighting equipment so I spend a lot of my time working with gaffers and DPs to try and sort out exactly these sorts of problems. In this case, I may be overthinking this little paint choice because of that experience but it's still fun to ponder. :)

_________________
http://www.costumebot.com


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
At the end of the day, this is only a hobby. The important thing is to simply have fun. :thumbsup

_________________
Cordially,

- Mac
( Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sculptingvader/ )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Gunmetal paint for ANH Vader?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 657
Location: UK
gonk27 wrote:
I'm just wondering whether the graphite paint on the TIE helmet could be a big clue to the metallic paint on Vader? Both black helmets had these highlights added for the same reason, presumably by the same team of people?

Jez, would there be any chance of some more good daylight shots of that TIE helmet at some point? :cool:


Jeremy


Thats my personal view. They used the same on both helmets. I'll certainly try and get more pics if I can :)

Cheers

Jez

_________________
http://www.StarWarsHelmets.com
Image
The archive of Helmets and Costumes from the Star Wars Galaxy


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Blue Moon by Trent © 2007
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Hosted by Freeforum.ca, get your free forum now! TOS | Support Forums | Report a violation
MultiForums powered by echoPHP phpBB MultiForums