As mentioned, I don't foresee any real issues with this sale, as it is advertized for exactly what it is and information and pictures are shared so openly and forthcoming. This may very well actually sell. Good luck to the owner if it does.

Sold for $120K+. Not too bad for a tour costume.

Cool. Congrats to the seller and I'm sure the buyer is pretty happy too.

Congrats to the owner! I'd be surprised if other tour Vader's would even get remotely close to that figure. He must be happy with what he got for it... $120k.. WOW!

Cheers,

Kraig

I kind of lost track of this and meant to compare the photos with a real Farmer suit.

I think the leathers and cape are Farmer, as is the chestbox and belt, no doubt Farmer.

The helmet is not. It is definitely something else, probably from later on since the paintwork isn't Farmer.

The armor may be as it has the correct hinges, but real Farmer armor would have foam inside, so I wonder about that.

The shins are not Farmer either. Real Farmer shins are vacuformed, not fiberglass.

So my guess is someone had the suit itself but needed a helmet, shins and possibly armor to complete it.

This is not the same suit that I knew of from years back.

Could have been repainted? The tour pieces I've seen shown all looked like crap - damage and paint peeling, etc...

One could question why Farmer would make vacuform shins for one suit, then fiberglass for another, when the chestboxes were made the same way?

Also it isn't really just because it was painted I say its not a farmer helmet, as I know a real one could have been repainted.

Permit me go into more detail...

1. Nosebridge on a Farmer has a depth in side view like an original ESB/ANH, whereas this mask it extends deeper, almost like a TM ESB. So the lenses as a consequence sit deeper. Also the front side edge profile of the nosebridge should have a distinct concave curvature to it, whereas on the auction mask it is straighter.

2. The tube ends are similar to the VP, ie: later on. They are even narrowed down even further than on the VP. A real Farmer mask would have the tube ends being identical to an original ESB mask. There is filler inside the V-section of where the tubes join together, something that is not present on an original Farmer mask, ie: it should be like original ESB.

3. No detail whatsoever.

4. The "B" inside the dome is wrong, as Farmer lettering was a different ink and different type of writing.

5. The mounting ring in the dome is not the same and looks brand new.

6. The casting looks new.

7. One of the most telling signs is that the interior of the dome is very smooth in terms of the lay up of the fiberglass. On a real Farmer dome, for example, there would be a more definite demarcation between the crown and the dome, and the center ridge on the original Farmer is very well defined INSIDE the dome, but on this dome neither is the case.

8. The dome is ROTJ, not ESB.

9. The neck shape and curvature in the rear lower section doesn't match an original Farmer mask, ie: like an original ESB, both in terms of the corner curvature and in terms of the lower rear neck area being spread out a bit more near the bottom than on an original ESB or original Farmer mask. In fact, the shape is much more similar to the original ROTJ mask than to an original ESB mask.

10. The tube undercut has been filled in, just like on a 20th C. On an original Farmer mask, it is not.

11. Mounting ring on the mask is not like an original Farmer mask. Why replace it if it was refinished?

12. Straps and strap clips are not original Farmer, why replace those?

13. Foam placement is wrong. Even if it is new foam, why not replicate the original Farmer foam pattern?

14. There is no paint inside the mask. There is on an original Farmer mask.

15. The lenses are not the correct shade.

16. The grills are not the same as Farmer grills. One would think that if they had to refinish the helmet at least they would match the lenses and grills?

17. Strap slots are not cut the same shape as on an original Farmer.

18. There should be interior screws holding the mounting ring in place on the mask on an original Farmer, on the auction mask there are no interior screws, only exterior to the ring.

19. Rear edge undercut is less on this mask than an original ESB or Farmer ESB.

20. Lower lip of mouth triangle has a ROTJ profile, not the ESB profile with the upper edge change in curvature (like ANH).

21. And probably one of the questionable details about the inside of the dome is that the identification letter is written as "B" in the same ink and writing style as the so-called original ESB dome that appeared in the Christie's auction last year. So why would someone do that?

I could go on but I think you get the idea. I do not see how it is possible that this is a Farmer helmet. And I bet if I measured it, I could probably show that it isn't even the right size for a first generation casting off an original ESB.

Thomas, the whole suit had a COA signed directly from Nick Farmer. The previous owner had numerous documents (some of which I saw with my own eyes), emails and phone conversations directly with Nick Farmer about this tour suit. To question it as a Farmer tour helmet or tour costume is basically calling Nick Farmer (the guy whose company made these suits) a liar.

Perhaps the other suit and helmet you saw pics of weren't all "real" Farmer tour parts. I don't know maybe it was (and I have seen some of the same pics of that suit and helmet you refer to), but honestly it isn't cool to try and discredit or trash something which you don't know the real and full background story on. It's sold and done with. Just let it go.

Would you be able to tell us more about the documents you saw?

Well all I am doing is pointing out differences between this helmet and a known Farmer helmet, a helmet that has much more in common with an original ESB helmet (the Paul Allen) than this auction helmet. I could show this as well. Yes the auction is done, so isn't now the time to discuss it?

I would be interested to see the letter of provenance from Farmer. I contacted him and he knew very little of the work done at that time given how long it was ago and he specifically could remember very little of the issues surrounding the production of the costumes. He has no records, photographs, or products from this company that was liquidated in 2003.

That's what he told me. So if he was specific about a costume then I would be interested to hear more. I am not saying he is lying, I am saying he may not know the differences in the helmet. Yes, most of the costume is produced by Farmer Studios Ltd, and that is probably what he focused on, but I see problems with the helmet. And if the helmet was completely refinished, how could Farmer possibly be able to tell?

I would also ask, why put a pink "B" in both masks (the one from the Christie's auction and then this one)? Why give it an identifier that has no meaning? The Farmer helmets were numbered, not lettered, with white numbers, not pink letters.

I would like to know the reasons for these differences. The helmet isn't even ESB. This has nothing to do with Farmer, this has to do with what I can see with my own eyes.

The auction states:

"Farmer contacted David Middleton, the construction storeman for the Empire Strikes Back at Pinewood Studios, who released one of the original Darth Vader costumes used in the film in order to make the master molds and patterns necessary to create exacting clones of the costume for the film's premiers in select major markets."

So the helmet should be a direct copy off an original ESB helmet, and it isn't. Even the dome is ROTJ. So are you telling me that it isn't and that it is just a coincidence that the dome looks exactly like a ROTJ dome?

What I am looking for then, if I am wrong, are reasons for these differences I listed.

I don't know what else to tell you Thomas. As I write this, I am looking at a copy of the COA from Farmer's in reference to this tour costume. I'm also currently looking at the detailed shipping invoice from Farmers, which has a description of each individual piece that was shipped and a total shipping invoice for all pieces. Of particular interest is the following:



There were a total of 14 items shipped from Farmers in the UK to the previous owner with regard to this tour suit. I can't show these documents publically or privately because they are now the property of the new owner and I don't think the new owner nor Profiles would be too happy if I did.

As far as your other questions, well we could ask all day long why, why, why. We don't have the answers yet to many questions even 35+ years later. They had ROTJ style trooper suits during ESB, is it hard to believe they had ROTJ domes made during that time that were never used? They had a mish mash of screenused items used on tours combined with tour costumes pieces, is it hard to believe original screenused parts never made it back to LFL or got mixed up with tour items? Just because tour piece A had B style screws and tour piece C had X style knobs doesn't mean they both aren't authentic. With the overwhelming inconsistency of the OT and everything involved with that SW era, including tours, it isn't beyond reasonable logic that things don't match up consistently.

Awesome pix, Pete!

Love seeing how the back of the chestbox is put together, looks like they went the real hard way affixing the straps!