Hi Jez,

I agree that it was my initial thought that it could be fibreglass. If it is fibreglass then it suggests to me that the initial helmet was moulded and cast at Elstree and the fibreglass tool was sent over to Shepperton.

With regards to the small panel on the back of the helmet it's possible that it was taken from the prop's supply of plastic items that were being used on the spacecraft. It would have been simple to push it into the back of the clay before moulding.

It would have been Lucas and John Barry's decision not to use the detail. It could easily have been filled in in the mould or disced off by Shepperton on the positive fibreglass tool.

I do agree that the helmet does look a bit square but not sure if this is due to lighting - I'll look at the dvd again and see if there are some more shots I can post.

Brian

Again Brian - great info

There are a number of options, but here are two I'm thinking of:

1) Its fiberglass and the Elstree guys did it. Sending the tool over to SDS for the vac forming.

2) Its vac-formed by SDS and another example of AA "sticking bits onto other bits" (like he did with the TIE with the same part)

Dates-wise (15th March) it could be either

Hope you can post some more pics Brian

Cheers

Jez

3) Or vac-formed and assembled by the guys at Elstree and they were better at trimming and fitting the parts!?

Yeah i know thats an option but it just doesnt seem to make sense imo (unless they literally just made one or two). We have a saying in the UK, "You dont have a Dog and bark yourself". If Elstree could vac-form then why outsource? If the vac former broke then get it replaced or repaired - dont let some non-unionised guy do work that could have been don in-house.

Plus the timings (if Feb 76 then yes, but by March 15th most of the SDS trooper work was already done) Hence there would have been lots of SDS helmets and armour at Elstree.

In addition AA had already had stuck one of those on the back of one of the TIE's as a test.

IMO its if fiberglass then its Elstree, if its plastic then its SDS

I appreciate that we're only guessing at this stage, but it is fun!

Cheers

Jez

Maybe they didn't have time to wait for it to get repaired?

Thats unlikely - AA's involvement seems to have been around 8-10 weeks. It cant take that long, especially as it meant £££'s were going out the door which could have stayed "in-house"

Cheers

Jez

Jez

IMO it's the first option. It's hard to see but if you look carefully the helmet is a different colour to the suit.

I can't see any joints either except the ear flaps which were not part of the original sculpt.

Ainsworth or Pemberton never made a mention of the clay helmet until the back and forth of the witness statements and they received my statement saying that I had seen the clay helmet at Elstree Studios. With that knowledge Lucasfilm looked for any photos and found the one I put on the Prop Den. It was only then that he came up with the story that he was given the clay helmet but had an accident with it and 'sculpted' the mould.

It is my belief that as the clay helmet was at Elstree and there were some of the best mould makers in the world there at the time that it would have been moulded there and cast in fibreglass to be sent of to Ainsworth to vac form.

It does not make sense to pass the clay helmet to an unknown who by his own admission incapable of making moulds from clay.

Brian

[img][/img]


Helmet different colour to suit - it looks to be the colour of gel coat used at the time which means it could have been a fibreglass helmet

Brian

I am loving this thread !

Thanks Brian for posting such amazing pics


Andy

The notch at the rear of the head is formed by that TIE Pilot thing. I'm surprised you saw that notch (lower boundary) and not the upper boundary of the Tie Pilot greeble box.

So taking one of Brian's shots and increasing the saturation:



It appears the chest and ab armor is potentially of a different material, adn that the helmet and arms are of similar material. however, these things are very subjective. If the yellow hue of the cod material is similar to that of the arms and helmet, that suggests the cod is a separate piece (is it supposed to be? I don't have TK stuff thoroughly memorized).

However, if the cod and ab plate are one piece, then the old video camera might have put some yellows into anything that is slightly darker, and we could be viewing a false positive.

Brian

There's a HUGE amount of logic and sense in your post.

Regarding the first part, remember that the first 50 (HDPE) Helmets that Ainsworth made were painted - hence there would be a colour discrepancy (and in fact was between the movie-used helmets and armour)

However your second point (about the clay sculpt) jumped out at me as it very closely matched the progress of events as I saw them at the time. Like I said in another post its simply daft for Ainsworth to suggest that he sculpted the helmet using the clay sculpt as only a visual guide.

IMO that infamous photo (which I had been privvy to some months earlier to it being posted here) was the silver bullet for me. Everything changed when I saw that.

If youre looking for someone to scan the complete footage then then I'm happy to do it. I'm heading your way Friday morning if you're interested.

Cheers

Jez

Jez

Thanks for the offer but I've released all I'm going to for now. How do you know where I am?

Brian

wow Christmas came early in this thread! Awesome stuff, Brian...thanks a million!!

It does definitely seem that it's the greebly on the back of the helmet causing that little bulge...good catch, Mac.
As to the slight diff in color, esp between the chest/ shoulder bells-arms, etc: I have noticed that before in numerous pics and often wondered what could have cause it...maybe those parts were left in the smoking lounge at Elstree

No probs Brian -I quite understand

As far as knowing where you are, we spoke on the phone a couple/three years back and I think you said you were Hemel way

Cheers

Jez