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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:42 pm
Posts: 502
Qui

I posted pics because unlike many others I, like Jez, enjoy sharing my love of all things stormtrooper. The helmet has a full COA from PsoL, do I therefore need to prove anything to a bunch of keyboard jockey experts like Gino?

People think they are experts because they have seen a few pictures. PsoL have handled many many original helmets and identifying original props is their business, they do it all day every day.

I wanted to share pictures to help increase our collective knowledge and all I got was abuse from a bunch of petty people(like Darth Karo), although there was a great deal of support mostly from members here, for which I am grateful.

Joe


Last edited by JoeR on Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:23 am 
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Posts: 502
And another point Qui

I would have expected a little respect from the 'community' with regards to this helmet, considering it is the second original helmet I have now owned. Everyone knew full well, I had researched and found one previously, but apparently that counted for nothing....

I am all for debate but a lot of people seem to like to argue for the sake of it, perhaps to be considered a 'big hitter' on the RPF. That is BS in my opinion! :rolleyes

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:46 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: San Jose, CA
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
Mac, his little tirade against Joe fell just as flat as Thomas' did against GINO. As I said, both arguments were utterly pointless. I give GINO the benefit of the doubt at times, but even I can admit when the guy is wrong, and I told him as much regarding this one. I haven't seen the posts here where members have pointed out his "inaccuracies". Frankly, it is irrelevant to me.

As far as "endorsing the bully" goes, people here do the saaaaame thing. Yes, I like GINO, but in all fairness, I don't know him from Adam. Same goes for all of you, none of us know each other, for the most part. We ALL have our opinions, and they are all worth exactly the time it took you to type them out...mine included.

Now, Joe said something on GINO's board that really struck me. He basically said he has nothing to prove to anyone. I direct this to you, Joe; If you have nothing to prove to anyone, why post about your piece in the first place? I still think it is what it is...a cool piece of film history, but you chose to share it with us in the SW Prop community, so it says to me that you are looking for approval. I've already said I am envious. It's a hell of a thing to find TWO pieces from ILM. Let's not sugar coat it though, we are looking for approval when we post pics of our items. If not approval, then at least mutterings of jealousy.


Gonz,

Thomas' "tirade" against GINO didn't fall flat for the same reason however. My read on participants' responses is that Thomas' past stubborn myopic focus and the horrendous amounts of difficult-to-interpret photo comparisons frustrated them to the point they became immune to anything valid he might say. The AA/SDS thread on the RPF was brought up. People were also saying "Don't look at GINO's past; his concern is valid." Conversely, people don't have to look at the past; GINO's current conduct condemns him clearly enough. Thomas' concerns were indeed valid and not pointless. However, they were drowned out by the volume of the ridicule he received. What a double standard!

Also, don't confuse having an opinion with becoming a self-appointed one man prop police force. GINO was banned for trolling. I endured months of him trashing and derailing my threads as well as personal attacks. For what? These were educational threads written to help others to have an improved knowledge of Vader props so that people could think independently without need to rely on people who claim "secret sources" with Lucasfilm and yet refuse to back up what they say. Please, therefore, don't paint everyone with the same brush. While no-one here is perfect, since GINO was banned, nobody has bullied anyone nor trolled threads and leveraged public angst to pressure an individual wrongfully.

Are there imperfect people here on the Den? Yes. Bullies? No incidents after GINO was banned.

But your last sentence regarding jealousy is thought-provoking (in a good way). JoeR revealed that there was past history with GINO, and a deal that didn't go through. Well, that fell on some deaf ears. It prompted me to think: the SW community is full of adult-sized kid who have not grown up yet or emotionally matured, since jealousy is so rampant - the need to "one-up" everyone else and to be king-of-the-hill.

I'm personally not jealous of JoeR because, quite honestly, I'm not a fan of ROTJ stormtrooper helmets. At the end of the day, it's a damn piece of vacformed plastic (though a damn nice piece). Likewise, Vader is just a piece of fiberglass. They're cool looking and they remind us of our childhood and help us tap into a "fountain of youth" of sorts. The fact that grown men would fall to jealousy, politics, manipulation, propaganda, incrimination, etc. over plastic and fiberglass is something I hope we can all rethink. Let's just focus on enjoying them. You never know: the more we cheer people forward when they arrive into acquisitions, it may benefit the community in ways you wouldn't expect. Once in a while, someone choses to share and in doing so transforms the whole fan collector landscape.

I think that if the environment weren't made so hostile by a select few, I think there would be more sharing. Had JoeR been given much more sincere encouragement, I think he might have found it amicable to find a way to make "JR" helmets available.


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:42 pm
Posts: 502
CSMacLaren wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
Mac, his little tirade against Joe fell just as flat as Thomas' did against GINO. As I said, both arguments were utterly pointless. I give GINO the benefit of the doubt at times, but even I can admit when the guy is wrong, and I told him as much regarding this one. I haven't seen the posts here where members have pointed out his "inaccuracies". Frankly, it is irrelevant to me.

As far as "endorsing the bully" goes, people here do the saaaaame thing. Yes, I like GINO, but in all fairness, I don't know him from Adam. Same goes for all of you, none of us know each other, for the most part. We ALL have our opinions, and they are all worth exactly the time it took you to type them out...mine included.

Now, Joe said something on GINO's board that really struck me. He basically said he has nothing to prove to anyone. I direct this to you, Joe; If you have nothing to prove to anyone, why post about your piece in the first place? I still think it is what it is...a cool piece of film history, but you chose to share it with us in the SW Prop community, so it says to me that you are looking for approval. I've already said I am envious. It's a hell of a thing to find TWO pieces from ILM. Let's not sugar coat it though, we are looking for approval when we post pics of our items. If not approval, then at least mutterings of jealousy.


Gonz,

Thomas' "tirade" against GINO didn't fall flat for the same reason however. My read on participants' responses is that Thomas' past stubborn myopic focus and the horrendous amounts of difficult-to-interpret photo comparisons frustrated them to the point they became immune to anything valid he might say. The AA/SDS thread on the RPF was brought up. People were also saying "Don't look at GINO's past; his concern is valid." Conversely, people don't have to look at the past; GINO's current conduct condemns him clearly enough. Thomas' concerns were indeed valid and not pointless. However, they were drowned out by the volume of the ridicule he received. What a double standard!

Also, don't confuse having an opinion with becoming a self-appointed one man prop police force. GINO was banned for trolling. I endured months of him trashing and derailing my threads as well as personal attacks. For what? These were educational threads written to help others to have an improved knowledge of Vader props so that people could think independently without need to rely on people who claim "secret sources" with Lucasfilm and yet refuse to back up what they say. Please, therefore, don't paint everyone with the same brush. While no-one here is perfect, since GINO was banned, nobody has bullied anyone nor trolled threads and leveraged public angst to pressure an individual wrongfully.

Are there imperfect people here on the Den? Yes. Bullies? No incidents after GINO was banned.

But your last sentence regarding jealousy is thought-provoking (in a good way). JoeR revealed that there was past history with GINO, and a deal that didn't go through. Well, that fell on some deaf ears. It prompted me to think: the SW community is full of adult-sized kid who have not grown up yet or emotionally matured, since jealousy is so rampant - the need to "one-up" everyone else and to be king-of-the-hill.

I'm personally not jealous of JoeR because, quite honestly, I'm not a fan of ROTJ stormtrooper helmets. At the end of the day, it's a damn piece of vacformed plastic (though a damn nice piece). Likewise, Vader is just a piece of fiberglass. They're cool looking and they remind us of our childhood and help us tap into a "fountain of youth" of sorts. The fact that grown men would fall to jealousy, politics, manipulation, propaganda, incrimination, etc. over plastic and fiberglass is something I hope we can all rethink. Let's just focus on enjoying them. You never know: the more we cheer people forward when they arrive into acquisitions, it may benefit the community in ways you wouldn't expect. Once in a while, someone choses to share and in doing so transforms the whole fan collector landscape.

I think that if the environment weren't made so hostile by a select few, I think there would be more sharing. Had JoeR been given much more sincere encouragement, I think he might have found it amicable to find a way to make "JR" helmets available.


Quoted for truth.

I a little perspective is needed by some people.

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:52 pm
Posts: 379
Joe, I'm lost. If you bought this from an individual, how'd you get a COA from PSOL?


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:26 am
Posts: 1239
JoeR wrote:
I wanted to share pictures to help increase our collective knowledge and all I got was abuse from a bunch of petty people(like Darth Karo), although there was a great deal of support mostly from members here, for which I am grateful.
Joe


I'm not done with the abuse there cowboy. All you did was waste space. I was defending you in the beginning, but after the crap you pulled, there was no reason to any further. You can stick your petty comment right up your ass. You jumped the gun in showing this helmet in the same way Gino did in implying it was a recast of your previous. I should be grateful that I got to see a few pics of your helmet and then have you state on Gino's forum that only two people are basically worthy of any more pics and info? Sorry, but I have a little more self respect than to thank you for wasting my time with your nonsense. Your stories are not even adding up. Why bother even posting any further? There is so much BS in the prop community and you just added to it. Enjoy your helmet, it's real nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 251
clutch wrote:
Joe, I'm lost. If you bought this from an individual, how'd you get a COA from PSOL?

Another good question would be why? Can this be documented as a screen used piece, Joe? I mean is there a shot of this unpainted helmet available? If so, don't the replica mic tips detract from the status of the piece?


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:42 pm
Posts: 502
DK, you stated I was wasting time posting pics, I disagree, I was sharing a find with the community. I post a few pics to start with and then get a shed load of abuse thrown at me, what a freak I am for clamming up :rolleyes

Idiots like Gino ruin the fun for everyone with baseless claims. The two people mentioned can be trusted, unlike Gino who twists everything, and will use anything you say against you.

Qui, the mic tips were done by the previous owner, I haven't decided what to do with them yet. No it is not screenmatched, neither was my old helmet nor JB's nor Screenused or PsoL, but they are still genuine.

What exactly doesn't add up? You can't get something authenticated unless you buy it from a dealer.

Joe


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:26 am
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Joe, it's your helmet to do as you wish. You are right, you don't have to appease me or anyone else. I certainly had no bias or hidden agenda towards you or the helmet. I was irritated by the whole RPF fiasco started by Gino, but I was equally as disappointed in the way you handled it. You would have been better off to wait on showcasing it until you had your background story complete, but who am I with my petty opinion. :rolleyes


Last edited by Lambotour on Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 251
JoeR wrote:
DK, you stated I was wasting time posting pics, I disagree, I was sharing a find with the community. I post a few pics to start with and then get a shed load of abuse thrown at me, what a freak I am for clamming up :rolleyes

Idiots like Gino ruin the fun for everyone with baseless claims. The two people mentioned can be trusted, unlike Gino who twists everything, and will use anything you say against you.

Qui, the mic tips were done by the previous owner, I haven't decided what to do with them yet. No it is not screenmatched, neither was my old helmet nor JB's nor Screenused or PsoL, but they are still genuine.

What exactly doesn't add up? You can't get something authenticated unless you buy it from a dealer.

Joe


I think the confusion comes in with your statements. You said you bought it from an "extra" on RotJ, but now say you have a CoA from PSoL. I am wondering why you would need a CoA for a piece for YOUR collection?


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:42 pm
Posts: 502
Darth Karo wrote:
Joe, it's your helmet to do as you wish. You are right, you don't have to appease me or anyone else. I certainly had no bias or hidden agenda towards you or the helmet. I was irritated by the whole RPF fiasco started by Gino, but I was equally as disappointed in the way you handled it. You would have been better off to wait on showcasing it until you had your background story complete, but who am I with my petty opinion. :rolleyes


This is pointless, that short little freak Sabatino made totally baseless claims with no evidence and yet I handled it badly. I am very confused as to how I handled being unjustly slagged off badly,when I had a certified original. Gino apologising for his baseless BS suddenly made it legitimate, what a joke :rolleyes


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:23 pm 
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JoeR wrote:
Darth Karo wrote:
Joe, it's your helmet to do as you wish. You are right, you don't have to appease me or anyone else. I certainly had no bias or hidden agenda towards you or the helmet. I was irritated by the whole RPF fiasco started by Gino, but I was equally as disappointed in the way you handled it. You would have been better off to wait on showcasing it until you had your background story complete, but who am I with my petty opinion. :rolleyes


This is pointless, that short little freak Sabatino made totally baseless claims with no evidence and yet I handled it badly. I am very confused as to how I handled being unjustly slagged off badly,when I had a certified original. Gino apologising for his baseless BS suddenly made it legitimate, what a joke :rolleyes


Because you should have told him on the RPF that you weren't going to show him any more pics or give him any more info and stuck to it. You allowed yourself to be manipulated into having to appease him. Then after the attempted character assassination, you joined (were allowed in) his forum to show more pics and give more info??????? That makes absolutely no sense. I've never stated that I doubted your story or the helmet's history, but you gave into pressure. I thought you were going to tell Gino to phuck off and then continue showing your helmet here or the RPF, but no, instead you lumped everyone together with having hidden agendas etc and stated that only two people were worthy of the info and pics. You let yourself get bullied, and yeah I got pissed, because I thought you should have stood up for yourself right from the beginning. Perhaps that's just not your style and that's fine, but please don't lump me together with everyone else who you feel has some vendetta against you, because I don't.

I've said about all I need to say on this matter, so I'm done here. Have fun playing with your helmet.


Last edited by Lambotour on Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:40 pm 
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Well, I wouldn't necessarily say there is anything wrong with Joe getting a COA from Propstore even if he didn't purchase it through them. I did not know they would certify pieces not purchased through them, acting as a third party authenticator if you will, but I do not see anything inherently wrong with that. Really, it's up to them to determine what aspect of the prop hobby they want to service. It's thier integrity that would be tarnished if an item turns out to be fake; similarly, if their COA's are consistently validated by the community, it only strengthens their role as an authenticator. I obviously am forming this opinion based on my belief that PSOL has no inherent interest/agenda in giving a fake item a COA. Again, it's their reputation in the community at stake.

It should go without saying that even though an entity, any entity for that matter, issues a COA, the item should still be scrutinized. Similarly, any claims by an individual should also be scrutinized. As with any hobby where large sums of money are paid by individuals for rare items, there will be attempts at fakes and forgeries. It happens in every mature collecting marketplace, which is why I defend Gino for blowing the whistle. I don't think his claims were baseless. If we were to look at the circumstances present, without necessarily filtering them through the terse feelings for Gino, it was a very disturbing chain of events:
1) Joe owns production used ROTJ helmet
2) Joe has molds made in the hopes of producing replicas (which apparently doesn't happen); this is not openly known by most members
3) Joe sells original helmet
4) Months later, Joe scores another ROTJ helmet, production used although not finished

I don't see how anyone can not immediately question things. Joe, if you had scored an original ANH helmet, I don't think this would have blown up, but considering the chain of events, I can't blame him for questioning you or the helmet. I don't agree with his tactics or techniques for raising suspicion, but that has always been his way of handling things. "Bull in a china shop" comes to mind. Again, it's unfortunate that the person blowing the whistle is known for his prickish attitude and huge ego, but that still does not excuse the "what business is it of yours" attitude presented by other members. I wish there was less side taking and more of a focus on the actual discussion in matters such as these, but I guess that's just the nature of Gino's involvement in the hobby. It's unfortunate but understandable.

So....congrats on the helmet Joe. I'm sorry you won't be sharing any further pictures or information on it, but I'm glad for your sake that the questions and rumors have subsided concerning the piece itself. It's always nice seeing production pieces such as these surface.


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:36 am 
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Oy... please keep it cool guys...


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 Post subject: Re: Original Jedi Stormtrooper Helmet...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:13 am 
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For anyone not knowing what PSOL is; it stands for Prop Store Of London: http://www.propstore.com


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