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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:17 pm 
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Darth Karo wrote:
I heard through the vader grapevine that Thomas made it such an unpleasant experience for the moldmaker that the run almost didn't happen and that may have put him off from offering any more casts. I also heard that he cut the line, so to speak, and offered the moldmaker more money to be the first to get a cast thereby cutting ahead of everyone else.



Huh? What the devil are you talking about? I don't even know the guy who did the mold.

I apologize to Mike (Vadermonkey) for my post insofar as his inquiries about the TD were after I had offered him one and it didn't work out.

So? I'd like an apology from DK for his comments above and I would like to know who told him such nonsense.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:24 pm 
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voice in the crowd wrote:
Thomas dealt directly with my friend the middle man so any dealings they had were private which was fine by me as after taking an age to get the ball rolling I was just happy to get things really happening.

I know Thomas was very demanding on information and images of the master but that was his prerogative and quite understandable as it is clear his interests are in studying Vader so any information would be appreciated by any Vader fan.


Ask your friend. Did I get photos of the master? No. Only the ones that were shown to everyone at that time. I wasn't demanding. And I was representing the interests of the people that were investing in this. I ask. I don't demand. I don't even know the guy who owns the VP master and he's the one who molded it.

voice in the crowd wrote:
As for the order the casts were given Thomas got the first then there was a gap as the propmaker was busy then the other six were made back to back. I personally couldn't care less who got their casts in what order all I was concerned about was after speaking to people about the VP nobody was let down. To my knowledge (remember I only dealt with a few friends) everyone I knew personally who 'definitely' wanted a VP (and I can only speak for the people on my side of the run) got one. I have spoken to people after the event who were interested in a copy but they had no direct with me at the time but had contact with the other interested parties.

If Thomas paid more for the first cast then that is no problem as then my mate got a few extra quid in his pocket :)

So in a nutshell any VP stuff was done and dusted about a year and a half ago after a long time in the mix. The reason people did drop out was because of the waiting time but no money was taken up front from anybody money was only taken for a product in hand.

If I could get one for every member of this forum who wanted one I would get them tomorrow and at the same reasonable price. Unfortunately circumstances outwith my control dictated the end of the run.

I hope that fills in a few gaps and if there was any bad feeling between Vader fans due to this run that was never meant to ever have been in the equation it was all meant to be good fun.

If I ever had anything to do with a prop run in the future I hope I have learned from this. I also wish The Prop Den had been up and running and I knew more of the Vader people I do now.

I really hope you guys can work out your differences.

Cheers Chris


I put money up front and it took a very long time to get the 1st pull. I tried to keep the others interested but they lost interest because of the delays.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:28 pm 
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Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
This shocks you why? The guy has been wrong so many times, it is difficult to keep track. Never once has he taken the high road and said "Oops, sorry guys, I screwed up." Bah, I should not say "never", more like I haven't seen it happen.


That's not true. I have admitted when I was wrong and apologized if I offended someone without basis. Would you like me to point out the instances? Honestly you just have everything against me so let it be. We'll see who is wrong and who is right.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:29 pm 
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AnsonJames wrote:
As far as I know the initial run of VP helmets was supposed to be 10 pulls but the mould died after 7 pulls.
The VP run had nothing to do with Thomas which is why I was curious about his remarks to Mike - if Thomas had been responsible for the VP run I certainly wouldn't have got one.

Lets hope that the next ANH Vader helmet is found by one of the good guys.


That's not what I understood, it seemed like after the first pull there were problems......and the project fell through but was later resurrected and I wasn't involved at that point.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:35 pm 
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Vadermonkey wrote:
No nothing like that. It is no secret that TD copies exist....it was said none were offered and that is a lie. It is very simple to understand.


Well Mike I appreciate you making me look like a lier. Thanks. One would think if you were a friend you would PM me and say hey Thomas you can't really say that because remember you offered me one. Then I would say oh right that was when I had the two extra copies available. But instead you post it publically to make me look like a lier. Why not ask yourself why you did that. I have no bad blood against you. But it seems something made you do that as you know full well what effect it would have in the context of the conversation.

That's about all I have to say about this matter. If you guys like to think I am a lier and cheat and low-life and know nothing, go right ahead, it's your prerogative. Even with that, I won't make a point of personally attacking anyone here, because I am only interested in discussing the accuracy of Vader helmets.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:43 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Darth Karo wrote:
I heard through the vader grapevine that Thomas made it such an unpleasant experience for the moldmaker that the run almost didn't happen and that may have put him off from offering any more casts. I also heard that he cut the line, so to speak, and offered the moldmaker more money to be the first to get a cast thereby cutting ahead of everyone else.



Huh? What the devil are you talking about? I don't even know the guy who did the mold.

I apologize to Mike (Vadermonkey) for my post insofar as his inquiries about the TD were after I had offered him one and it didn't work out.

So? I'd like an apology from DK for his comments above and I would like to know who told him such nonsense.


Apology!!!??? :lol For what? Telling the truth?? Is this better?:

I heard through the vader grapevine that Thomas made it such an unpleasant experience that the run almost didn't happen and that may have put off any more casts from being offered. I also heard that he cut the line, so to speak, and offered more money to be the first to get a cast thereby cutting ahead of everyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:52 pm 
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Darth Karo wrote:
I heard through the vader grapevine that Thomas made it such an unpleasant experience that the run almost didn't happen and that may have put off any more casts from being offered. I also heard that he cut the line, so to speak, and offered more money to be the first to get a cast thereby cutting ahead of everyone else.



Prove it or apologize. I have every email interaction in regard to the VP run at that time so you better be able to back up what you say. You BS about my stating that Brian sculpted the tubes short, and now this.

I was representing the bulk of interested parties at that time and doing a favor in terms of being the front man for the guy representing the owner of the VP master. So I had to answer to a lot of people waiting a long time for a mask. And I got excuse after excuse as to why it was delayed. I tried my best to keep the interest up. Because I was spending the extra time and energy to make things work, I asked if I could have a first pull and I was willing to pay extra for one, and I did. And the others in the group knew I was going to get the first pull. There was no cutting of the line because there was no line. You know nothing about what happened back then. The other guys were hesitant so they wanted to wait and see what my casting looked like. So I put my money up front to get the first pull. After I got it, I let them know and showed it to them so they could get a better impression of the quality of the mask. And after that they agreed to stay in on the run. But, excuses and delays and it never happened and it just died out. So? What unpleasant experience exactly did I provide for the mold maker? I never met him, never communicated with him, and don't even know his name. It was an unpleasant experience for those who had to wait, but thankfully they didn't put money up front. I was the one who paid extra and was made to wait and that was unpleasant. And those six addition helmets went to Chris' side of the run and that was long after it died out and was resurrected. So keep your peace if you are not able to corroborate rumors.


I expect an apology. And if you state a rumor like that which is defamatory then you better indicate who told you because they are also responsible.

And I really wonder why I have to constantly defend myself against people like you who simply like to report things from the grapevine to discredit others unfairly instead of providing constructive input into a thread.


Last edited by SithLord on Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:10 am 
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SithLord wrote:
Darth Karo wrote:
I heard through the vader grapevine that Thomas made it such an unpleasant experience that the run almost didn't happen and that may have put off any more casts from being offered. I also heard that he cut the line, so to speak, and offered more money to be the first to get a cast thereby cutting ahead of everyone else.



Prove it or apologize. I have every email interaction in regard to the VP run at that time so you better be able to back up what you say. You BS about my stating that Brian sculpted the tubes short, and now this.

I was representing the bulk of interested parties at that time and doing a favor in terms of being the front man for the guy representing the owner of the VP master. So I had to answer to a lot of people waiting a long time for a mask. And I got excuse after excuse as to why it was delayed. I tried my best to keep the interest up. Because I was spending the extra time and energy to make things work, I asked if I could have a first pull and I was willing to pay extra for one, and I did. And the others in the group knew I was going to get the first pull. There was no cutting of the line because there was no line. You know nothing about what happened back then. The other guys were hesitant so they wanted to wait and see what my casting looked like. So I put my money up front to get the first pull. After I got it, I let them know and showed it to them so they could get a better impression of the quality of the mask. And after that they agreed to stay in on the run. But, excuses and delays and it never happened and it just died out. So? What unpleasant experience exactly did I provide for the mold maker? I never met him, never communicated with him, and don't even know his name. It was an unpleasant experience for those who had to wait, but thankfully they didn't put money up front. I was the one who paid extra and was made to wait and that was unpleasant. So keep your peace if you are not able to corroborate rumors.


I expect an apology.

And I really wonder why I have to constantly defend myself against people like you who simply like to report things from the grapevine to discredit others unfairly instead of providing constructive input into a thread.


You are a funny guy. I'm sure you would have said the same thing to me about the whole "TD offerings" statement before Mike came forward and proved you to be a liar. I can assure you that it was in your best interest that he did because I had a lot more than just words to back up my statements. You can bet your scientific ass on that one. As far as an apology for what I just said, that's not going to happen. Period. So you can save your fingers from typing asking for one. I'm not going to reveal who told me either. Unlike you, I don't betray a trust. I'd rather be banned than to apologize to someone like you.


Last edited by Lambotour on Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:14 am 
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Darth Karo wrote:
You are a funny guy. I'm sure you would have said the same thing to me about the whole "TD offerings" statement before Mike came forward and proved you to be a liar. I can assure you that it was in your best interest that he did because I had a lot more than just words to back up my statements. You can bet your scientific ass on that one. As far as an apology for what I just said, that's not going to happen. Period. So you can save your fingers from typing asking for one. I'm not going to reveal who told me either, unlike you I don't betray a trust.



So then what you are saying is you are not able to back up what you said?


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:20 am 
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Look DK, all of this started when you gave the BS icon about my comments about the TD.

You've dragged many people through this nonsense starting in the SL helmet thread and for what reason? I'd like to know what your problem is that you would even go so far as to not care if you are banned for what you say. All I am asking is that if someone told you that, it's wrong and I'd like you to back it up or let it be. But you have something personal against me and I'd like to know why. And I know it started when I showed the TM mask with SL dome and you took a fit. Why don't you get it off your chest as every time you return to the Den you just try to get back at me for some reason.

And I mean this in a conciliatory manner. I have nothing personal against you or Mike or anyone here. So what gives?


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:46 am 
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SithLord wrote:
Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
This shocks you why? The guy has been wrong so many times, it is difficult to keep track. Never once has he taken the high road and said "Oops, sorry guys, I screwed up." Bah, I should not say "never", more like I haven't seen it happen.


That's not true. I have admitted when I was wrong and apologized if I offended someone without basis. Would you like me to point out the instances? Honestly you just have everything against me so let it be. We'll see who is wrong and who is right.

Oh dear lord, really Thomas? Step down from the cross. If you are correct on something, I will back you up. That applies to anyone I "associate" with online. Now we are reading how you defend the hobby, how you are looking out for everyone else and their best interests. Did someone say "Hey Thomas, come to defend us from the bad moldmaker!"? Perhaps it is your sense of seeming entitlement in regards to things.

Your comps were spot on wrong for the AA case, yet you cling to those as righteous. You were wrong about the TD tubes being anything other than cut short by someone when the mold was made. If I am reading between the lines correctly, it reads like you DID make life hard for the owner of the original VP.

Funny you talk about accuracy, but your willingness to discuss accuracy only extends as far as your purchases go. Have you ever said anything other than the pieces you own are accurate? Hell, you were trying to cram paint chips and drips that do not match down all of our throats. I have yet to see you do anything that is outside of your interest. I wish you could prove me wrong, but again, you will take offense to my comments and think I am out to get you, or some such.

Again, were you ever correct, I would be more than willing to come to your defense, but you and your ego just keep on writing checks your photos cannot cash.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:41 am 
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SithLord wrote:
And I mean this in a conciliatory manner. I have nothing personal against you or Mike or anyone here. So what gives?


The way I read your accusation, you implied he was rejected for having one of your castings because he'd incorporate it into his products - in other words, implying he was going to become a recaster. Saying he was untrustworthy maligns his reputation but implying he is a recaster does so much more damage.

So you're saying there's nothing personal and no bad blood? The nature of the accusations are anything but. They're consistent with animosity towards someone exposing them for lying.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:53 am 
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SithLord wrote:
That's not true. I have admitted when I was wrong and apologized if I offended someone without basis. Would you like me to point out the instances? Honestly you just have everything against me so let it be. We'll see who is wrong and who is right.


I hate to point this out, but in your TD thread, when I brought up that in the past when we discussed your photocomps that I had to correct over a dozen of your own comps to show you how you made your mask look bigger, etc. you practically assailed me and demanded and dared me to show you the comps once again. They're your own comps, BTW, with my line drawings to show your size comparisons were flawed for over a dozen comparisons. But that was not the first time I've had to re-analyze your own photos to show you that your factual statements were incorrect. You made your own TD mask look bigger than the screen-used! Well, in reality, we've now seen side-by-side photos of the TM, TD, etc. and the truth is that the TD was never so much larger than everyone else's helmet. So the size issue: posted as fact by you but disproven by your own photos later.

Thomas, I have to agree with Gonz on this one. Each time you take posts and I show you - either in your own comps - or perspective distortion differences between 4 feet and 6 feet+, you've always countered aggressively even though the pictures spoke for themselves. You're acting like someone whose opinions have eclipsed observable logic, stating conjecture as fact and truth.

Did you admit you were wrong? Did you apologize? I was assailed without basis - except for the fact that I contradicted you.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:02 am 
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You are demanding an apology from DK while you slander me for no reason? If you look like a liar it is because YOU LIED!! Its almost too simple to understand really.... :banger

I am not bound by any agreement to you to keep something secret that is not a secret....did I ever mention it before it was made public knowledge that casts exist? No.

You really ought to take that microscope of yours and see if you cant figure out why you are being such an ass, all that crap you said about me is 100% out of line and not deserved...and you are the only one here that owes anyone an apology. And I am not just talking about me, I'd say the whole Den and to the staff for your lies, trying to cover it up and wasting their time with all the drama you inflict.


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 Post subject: Re: The TD Cast Controversy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:38 pm 
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You know... after posting such defamation of character against Vadermonkey, it's mind boggling to see Thomas come back and post, making himself come across as having no bad blood and no malicious intent, while appearing innocent and wronged.

The two motivations are entirely incongruous.

Thomas makes a poor spin doctor.


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