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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:49 am 
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AnsonJames wrote:
You said it looked like a 20th Century derivative a few posts ago.


Yes, but I've seen a few more photos since then. :salut What I said before about the details hasn't changed since the mask still looks like one (look at the mask alone photo)....because of either the effect of paint and/or cleanup on parts like the tusk tubes/nose/nosebridge/teeth gap edges/noseslots/nailmarks, plus the neck being pulled in on the right rear side. Remove the paint and it might be a different story, although not for all the differences. It is definitely cleaned up on top so likely on the rear sides as well. And there will definitely be areas with more or less paint. But now at least I know it is larger than a 20th C and it is a great size, but not the largest out there (for example, the DJ is a tad larger). The movie poster helmet is nice but it also lacks something because of the paintwork or cleanup.


Last edited by SithLord on Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:57 am 
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The marking on the dome is interesting. If it is genuine - Maybe it is from a dueling scene?

It wouldn't suprise me if Berman's & Nathan's were involved somehow in contributing
to the tour suits. After all they are primarily a costume hire business and they did contribute to
A New Hope greatly. It would be a natural through line.

Beware though - I have seen fake B&N labels. They are in existence.

The paint job is suspicious also. It's not production.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:48 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
NoHumorMan wrote:
I'll be the first to admit that my stance on there being no additional helmets to the original on the ANH tour was wrong. Though... we need more info about the history of this helmet before such can be established.

Heh, I got blasted by you early on regarding tour suits having never existed unless proven otherwise, so I didn't suggest this as a possibility. :toothy

True... but notice I said: if any.

At the time... many of the new pictures available to us now... well... hadn't been shown... so the claim at the time felt a little... unproven to me! Especially some of the claims attached to the tour suits, which I still see no proof of. And Kermit Eller did state that it wasn't until the promotion of ESB that additional suits started popping up... so it's difficult to know what is the real story.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:44 pm 
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NoHumorMan wrote:
True... but notice I said: if any.


I actually commend you for saying that. We like to guess out loud to test theories, but if we're not careful and we keep repeating guesses and making theories, the repetition starts being taken as fact.

Let's just say now that there are now two documented helmets with this kind of mounting system. The funeral pyre and this "Recently Found". (Can we not call it a "mystery helmet" guys? Kinda getting tired of the term, as it's been a bit overused.)


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:01 pm 
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Don't forget the one in the archives, that would be three....


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:11 pm 
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I'd be interested in getting a width measurement from the mounting bracket. How far apart are the four screws spaced?


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:33 pm 
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The six holes furthest apart might correspond to the center tab and the remnant holes of the flanking side tabs (not the outermost tabs). But my first impression was that the entire group of holes is too far forward to correspond to the holes of the screen mask tabs, taking into account the amount of rear undercut on this mask being not greater than any other accurate casting we've seen recently...so those holes should be farther rearward...at least that's my impression based just on the photos. But it's still interesting to know if the front-to-rear distance between the holes is the same as a 3M tab. Are you thinking that maybe this was another mounting mechanism tried first on the screen mask and then they went with three tabs? That might explain why there are remnants of tab holes between the three tabs that could accomodate two more. The question I always had about that is whether there were two tabs initially and that wasn't secure enough and then they went to three tabs? I doubt they used five at once but that's another possibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:40 pm 
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Yeah... that was kinda my thought. Better to check it out than to leave a stone unturned! :thumbsup


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:46 pm 
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Additionally, I think there is a different paint under the area where the "tabs" might have been on the faceplate, which suggests that the helmet has probably been painted numerous times.

I'm also wondering why the marks inside the dome correspond with the ESB poster helmet. Based on my experience it is almost impossible to replicate or copy such a pattern when fiberglassing a piece - if you intend to copy it, one would have to mold such details and add them to a cast.


Last edited by vadermania on Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:50 pm 
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Thomas, I don't think that the tab position on the two hero ANH helmets was exactly identical, there might have been variations due to various reasons. This could apply to tour/promo helmets as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:07 pm 
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NoHumorMan wrote:
At the time... many of the new pictures available to us now... well... hadn't been shown... so the claim at the time felt a little... unproven to me! Especially some of the claims attached to the tour suits, which I still see no proof of. And Kermit Eller did state that it wasn't until the promotion of ESB that additional suits started popping up... so it's difficult to know what is the real story.


Hmm, when did KE say this? He confirmed for me that the Toys 'R us tour suits were pre-ESB, and other details he confirmed and mentioned coincide with that info.

EDIT:
BTW, I have some of those mounting brackets, and the holes are (left to right side) 1.3" apart (center to center); and (front to back) 1" apart (center to center); which don't line up with the holes on the platic 3M snaps.


Last edited by Zuka Zamamee on Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:12 pm 
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Zuka Zamamee wrote:
NoHumorMan wrote:
At the time... many of the new pictures available to us now... well... hadn't been shown... so the claim at the time felt a little... unproven to me! Especially some of the claims attached to the tour suits, which I still see no proof of. And Kermit Eller did state that it wasn't until the promotion of ESB that additional suits started popping up... so it's difficult to know what is the real story.


Hmm, when did KE say this? He confirmed for me that the Toys 'R us tour suits were pre-ESB, and other details he confirmed and mentioned coincide with that info.

I believe it was in the interview on StarWars.com - 2nd guy in the suit. Think it was something along the lines of when they started promoting ESB he began seeing more suits popping up - before the release of the movie - and his own suit - the original - got upgraded with the ESB look. I'll have to re-read that article again to see if I remember correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:56 pm 
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vadermania wrote:
Thomas, I don't think that the tab position on the two hero ANH helmets was exactly identical, there might have been variations due to various reasons. This could apply to tour/promo helmets as well.


Right I wouldn't expect them to be, but, and I'm just thinking to myself here, I'm wondering if this helmet came from the ILM mold (???) and was sent to the UK, and if so any hole pattern would have to be similar to the tab arrangement of the screen mask. I wish we had measurements without the paint. But there's a lot missing from it if it is from that same mold, but at this point it can't necessarily be ruled out.

Ya I can see what might be a lighter base coat on the mask. I completely agree about the interior details especially that triangle thingy....because there's no clear reference photo for one to replicate it like that. It's possible if the mask was repainted that they did some cleanup at that time but that's just speculation. If it was my helmet I would be confident that at least the helmet (dome) is the movie poster helmet. But the mask is still an open question...it's not unreasonable to think that it is the same but one has to account then for the differences.


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:57 am 
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- Breaker 1 9 -

Those mounting bracket are from old CB radios. You mount them onto the dash of a car and it hods the receiver. Saw many of them in the late 70's and 80's, but now with cell phones, they're all but extinct. (RIP)

I have a fun theory with the damage on the dome. It's the helmet that flew off during the lightsaber duel with Ben. :toothy

- See y'all on the flip-flop -

- We gone 10/4! -


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 Post subject: Re: Recently found ANH Vader
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:15 am 
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JB-Props wrote:
-
Those mounting bracket are from old CB radios. You mount them onto the dash of a car and it hods the receiver. Saw many of them in the late 70's and 80's, but now with cell phones, they're all but extinct. (RIP)



Kinda looks like that....good eye!
Or perhaps it's part of a latch from an old trunk.
Seems to be something along those lines though IMO.


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