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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:59 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
Arcturus1020 wrote:
I would love to know how the dome was attached to the faceplate of the helmet. Was it just held in place with velcro?



The crown of the skull on the mask has three plastic 3M tabs. Apparently, the interior of the dome had a bit of a "platform" with three corresponding 3M tabs to connect to as well. The ANH mask did not appear to use any velcro (like the type we use today) on the forehead. It may not have been the best attachment method, as there were some Death Star corridor fight scenes where Vader's dome allegedly nearly came off.



Actually, there's not much "alleged" about it. In the documentary "Empire of Dreams" that came with the OT DVD box set there's an out-take from the saber duel where you can see the helmet come right off (it flips forward IIRC) lol ! You can completely see why they changed the mounting method the ring/velcro arrangement.

Cheers,

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:18 pm 
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Location: UK
Great info Brian - thanks.

Some updating of facts on my site needs doing methinks!

Cheers

Jez


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:22 pm 
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dcarty wrote:
...there's an out-take from the saber duel where you can see the helmet come right off (it flips forward IIRC) lol ! You can completely see why they changed the mounting method the ring/velcro arrangement.


So does that constitute a screen-accurate dome position? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:53 am 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
dcarty wrote:
...there's an out-take from the saber duel where you can see the helmet come right off (it flips forward IIRC) lol ! You can completely see why they changed the mounting method the ring/velcro arrangement.


So does that constitute a screen-accurate dome position? :wink:


Yep, a fractured helmet lying on the ground is definitely "accurate" :toothy


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:02 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
So does that constitute a screen-accurate dome position? :wink:



Lol! I'd love to post some frame-caps but unfortunately I'm the proud owner of an HP dvd740 DVD Drive/Burner which, like a goodly percentage of this fine product, ceased to even recognize DVDs recently (shortly after the warranty expired of course). So I'll have to wait until lunchtime at work on Monday--unless someone can beat me to the punch.

The shot is at 50 Minutes 26 seconds. You can watch the helmet flip forward and reveal the back of Dave Prowse's head!

Cheerio,

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:36 am 
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dcarty wrote:
CSMacLaren wrote:
So does that constitute a screen-accurate dome position? :wink:



Lol! I'd love to post some frame-caps but unfortunately I'm the proud owner of an HP dvd740 DVD Drive/Burner which, like a goodly percentage of this fine product, ceased to even recognize DVDs recently (shortly after the warranty expired of course). So I'll have to wait until lunchtime at work on Monday--unless someone can beat me to the punch.

The shot is at 50 Minutes 26 seconds. You can watch the helmet flip forward and reveal the back of Dave Prowse's head!

Cheerio,

Dave


People keep telling me of this phenomenon, and I've tried watching for it, but either I sneeze or blink or am way too engrossed into the action to notice. Can you do a screengrab of this occurrence?


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:41 pm 
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Mac, it's not in the movie, but in the documentary. The first part of the scene, pretty much up to when the dome falls off is in the movie, but they cut to another angle just at that moment, iirc.

But please discuss all these things in this thread - Real Suit Facts - Discussion Thread - as this one is just about the facts.


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:45 pm 
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So those Apple tabs were used to connect the front and back parts of the mask (the back part not being used at all) and the dome? I'm just trying to get this all sorted out. The "facts" are confusing me a bit here. . . .


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:54 pm 
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Arcturus1020 wrote:
So those Apple tabs were used to connect the front and back parts of the mask (the back part not being used at all) and the dome? I'm just trying to get this all sorted out. The "facts" are confusing me a bit here. . . .


There were three tabs on the crown of the mask, near the rear opening. By logic, there would have been three tabs within the helmet's crown to receive the mask's tabs and to hold it there.

The mask was a "half" mask that slipped over the face:

Image

There was no backside piece used on production.

Prowse wore a leather collar as part of his suit. In those rare moments in the original trilogy films where you could get a peek under the helmet at the backside of his head, you'd see the leather collar covering the skin of his neck. This kept everything nice and dark back there.


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:25 pm 
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Arcturus1020 wrote:
So those Apple tabs were used to connect the front and back parts of the mask (the back part not being used at all) and the dome? I'm just trying to get this all sorted out. The "facts" are confusing me a bit here. . . .

True. Seems the original intend of the tabs was to connect the front and back, but was apparently changed to connect mask and dome, when the back was decided not to be used. At least that's how I read it.


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:03 pm 
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Prowse at one point mentioned challenges with breathing, so the chin triangle was cut out for him to give him more air. And that was just with wearing the front half. A rear half would have been quite suffocating.


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:16 pm 
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NoHumorMan wrote:
Arcturus1020 wrote:
So those Apple tabs were used to connect the front and back parts of the mask (the back part not being used at all) and the dome? I'm just trying to get this all sorted out. The "facts" are confusing me a bit here. . . .

True. Seems the original intend of the tabs was to connect the front and back, but was apparently changed to connect mask and dome, when the back was decided not to be used. At least that's how I read it.



Personally I don't see how the tabs could be used to connect the front and rear halves. The number of tabs seemed to change, but I don't know what the initial number was (2 or 5?). Maybe Mr. Muir knows. But they were all organized in relation to the receiving part of the helmet, I don't see how they connect to the rear. And there is a remnant of a second mechanism for attaching the front to the rear which Mr. Muir also alluded to.


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:39 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Personally I don't see how the tabs could be used to connect the front and rear halves. The number of tabs seemed to change, but I don't know what the initial number was (2 or 5?). Maybe Mr. Muir knows. But they were all organized in relation to the receiving part of the helmet, I don't see how they connect to the rear. And there is a remnant of a second mechanism for attaching the front to the rear which Mr. Muir also alluded to.


Each half's crown would theoretically have its own tabs. They would be joined by some piece of material that would have tabs beneath it.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:02 am 
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It's possible but unless Brian was sure there was that arrangement there's no evidence for that, at least from the screen mask as the only other holes on it would fit the roughly 1 inch long tabs. The tab holes clearly fit the tabs we are all familiar with and it is possible there was a separate connecting mechanism for the front/rear halves involving clips.

Anson posted this as fact:

Quote:
The three clips on top of the mask were for connecting the back and front together and Velcro to be used for the neck area.


clips, not tabs....


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 Post subject: Re: ANH Vader helmet - Just the Facts.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:36 pm
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Location: england
CSMacLaren wrote:
Prowse at one point mentioned challenges with breathing, so the chin triangle was cut out for him to give him more air. And that was just with wearing the front half. A rear half would have been quite suffocating.


Mac,

It certainly would have been suffocating to wear the complete mask. Dave's version of how the chin vent came about is inaccurate but I will be revealing the details in my forthcoming book :wink:

Brian


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