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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:43 pm 
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I find it amazing that so many accurate helmets have now come to the forefront. This is the first time in the Vader community that there are, not one, but five accurate helmets; there has never been such an educational opportunity to regular folks.

This, understandably, is highly disconcerting for some.

With such a large amount of information that has been made public - along with study tools in the form of photographs and hi-definition screen captures - what this means is that anyone with good powers of observation and patience can learn many things about mask and helmet features that were once closely-guarded secrets.

What we are seeing here is more than jealousy. We're seeing a gale force of winds of change - the likes of which Vader community has never experienced before. What's happening is powerfully positive and can only improve the community for years to come.


Last edited by CSMacLaren on Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:16 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
I find it amazing that so many accurate helmets have now come to the forefront. This is the first time in the Vader community that there are, not one, but five accurate helmets; there has never been such an educational opportunity to regular folks.

This, understandably, is highly disconcerting for some.

With such a large amount of information that has been made public - along with study tools in the form of photographs and hi-definition screen captures - what his means is that anyone with good powers of observation and patience can learn many things about mask and helmet features that were once closely-guarded secrets.

What we are seeing here is more than jealousy. We're seeing a gale force of winds of change - the likes of which Vader community has never experienced before. What's happening is powerfully positive and can only improve the community for years to come.


Couldn't have said it better myself!


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 Post subject: Re: The sad state of authentic Vader helmet castings.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Location: Houston TX
GINO wrote:
This is not directed at any individual.
I see helmets here being claimed to be things that they aren't and people swallowing the fantasy hook line and sinker. I do realize and believe that it is not intentionally done. More of a case of wishful thinking about an item's pedigree, provenance, lineage, etc.. Especially when they have a financial or emotional investment in a piece.

The ugly truth that these owner's don't want to face is that any helmet taken out of an authentic mold or a helmet recast from another helmet taken from authentic mold COULD be indistinguishable from an unfinished production original. Even if the helmet was made a few years ago, it could easily be made so that you could not tell the difference.
"This one is .004" smaller so it must be further down in lineage."
Oh please make it stop. Do you realize how ridiculous that is? You can argue helmets like the TM, and Thomas' helmets all day, when in reality there is no definitive proof that they are what you HOPE they are. It troubles me greatly to see these kinds of bold claims unquestioned into fact. You think you know, you really want to believe you know, but you really truly have no idea and in the end wishful thinking becomes your reality. Then you go posting that reality as facts when you are really just hoping, and people get seriously misinformed.

The only thing that prevents authentic vader castings from being passed off (AND PROVEN) as original screen used or production pieces are their inability to duplicate all the finishing touches (the work done to finish a helmet ie lenses, grill, foam, straps, attachment mechs, paint method, etc..) That is why I am so reluctant to just make insider info public knowledge. Not with the way things are now, especially here. Maybe one day when all the BS goes away.

Just wanted to share my thoughts based on recent times.


Define for me want makes a casting authentic?

To be authentic does it require that it was polled from the same mold as a screen used piece?

If a screen used piece was used to create a mold, is a casting from that mold authentic?

Help me understand this point of view.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm 
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Location: Edinburgh Scotland
I wrote in another thread how much I was enjoying the Vader community lately and especially The Prop Den with all the excellent helmets showing up recently and the great discussion threads.

I also noted how civil the forum was.

I clearly cursed things :lol

Cheers Chris


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:58 pm 
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StarWars Collector wrote:
Midnight Trooper wrote:
But all you people questioning Gino's Vader helmets, Stop.


Stop questioning????? :lol :lol :lol

There'd be little reason for this forum to exist if we stopped questioning these things.



Thats not really what I meant. I'm saying that if Gino has made the choice to not answer questions about his helmet, stop asking them.

Everytime one of his helmets comes up in conversation it is put down in an attempt to goad Gino into sharing about it. He wont.

So call it a VP if you want or take his word for what its worth.

Just like the people that put down his stormtrooper helmets. What is wrong with you?
Those helmets are what he says they are.

Now please dont disregard me as a Gino fanboy. I calls em like I sees em and I am just tired of the crap he seems to get from people who dont know what they are talking about.

Carry on.


Last edited by Midnight Trooper on Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:14 pm 
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I'm sorry Midnight Trooper, but you are not really in any position to make demands about anything, least of all about the questioning or not of one person's helmets - not GINO's or anyone else's.

This is a discussion forum - deal with it.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:22 pm 
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voice in the crowd wrote:
I wrote in another thread how much I was enjoying the Vader community lately and especially The Prop Den with all the excellent helmets showing up recently and the great discussion threads.

I also noted how civil the forum was.

I clearly cursed things :lol

Cheers Chris



We Scots have the inversed equivalent of Irish Luck! :toothy


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:44 pm 
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NoHumorMan wrote:
I'm sorry Midnight Trooper, but you are not really in any position to make demands about anything, least of all about the questioning or not of one person's helmets - not GINO's or anyone else's.

This is a discussion forum - deal with it.


I am not demanding, I am imploring.

I wish Gino would answer questions about his helmet just as much as the next guy. But he has made it clear he wont.

Its too bad that there is this sense of hostility when talking about Vader. But I really do think alot of it stems from jealously. And continually asking questions that do not have answers forthcoming is not a discussion.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:02 pm 
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I'm biting my tongue..VERY hard.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:08 pm 
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Midnight Trooper wrote:
Going back to the original idea of this thread;
I agree with Gino that people should be careful about how they label their helmets.
I am not calling anyone's research into question as I am not privy to that info.

But all you people questioning Gino's Vader helmets, Stop.

He is not shoving his helmet down anyone's throat and if you dont want to believe that his helmet is the best, dont.
He cant say "cast from an original UK helmet owned by John Doe" without revealing private info and frankly you people wouldnt believe anything he said anyway.
So please stop wanting to know so badly. Move along.

I love the authentic casts shown here. But I also see some shortcomings as well.
But its not a big deal to me.
I feel well informed enough to make my own choice of what I feel is the more authentic.
But those casts with the shortcomings, just make sure you dont glaze over those shortcomings too much so people wont be confused.



Gino makes claims about his helmets without providing information or photos that show what I have been asking to see. That's the difference here. And at the same time he is making baseless statements about the authenticity of other people's Vader helmets. I never said my mask was a production mask...I believe it might be because the VP seems to have come from it. I could be wrong and I have nothing to hide about that. So where is this fantasy Gino refers to? He's addressing my integrity insofar as how I present my mask or how TM presents his helmet, and he has no idea about the details on the original ANH or his faceplate and dome wouldn't have fake details.

I have every right to question his helmets if he questions mine. And he should be prepared to defend them, but he doesn't and instead starts these threads.

And it's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of education. I'll start a Gino ANH helmet thread then to illustrate.

Not shoving it down people's throat? Look at his signature banner. It's not for my benefit, he really believes it himself, and it's the same with his Vader helmets.

:rolleyes


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:10 pm 
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Midnight,

Your calling people to stop questioning GINO basically is a call upon the community to return to the dark ages before these five helmets came to the forefront, where people could speak to others unkindly for a lack of knowledge, information and experience. At the same time you're excusing him for demeaning speech and placing demands on others -- the very behavior that creates such hostility in the first place.

These five helmets represent a silver age for the community where we can ask questions and learn in a kinder and gentler environment.

I don't know about you, but I want that kinder and gentler environment, and it's long overdue. I think it begins here, now, right here on the Den.

Don't you all agree?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:21 pm 
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CSMacLaren wrote:
With such a large amount of information that has been made public - along with study tools in the form of photographs and hi-definition screen captures - what his means is that anyone with good powers of observation and patience can learn many things about mask and helmet features that were once closely-guarded secrets.

What we are seeing here is more than jealousy. We're seeing a gale force of winds of change - the likes of which Vader community has never experienced before. What's happening is powerfully positive and can only improve the community for years to come.



Mac, everything I've done from the RPF to here is to encourage people to do the research for themselves...I will show something...a comparison or something, and it might not always be perfect, and hope that collectors will say ok I'm going to look into that and make up my own mind....every time I've made a point I try my damnest to illustrate it...and I state my opinions as best I can and if I know something is the case I will state it with certainty.

I frankly don't know what this is about with Gino starting this thread. I think TM and I have been very up front and fair in our assessment of our castings. And now with the SL ANH we shall see. But I can tell you one thing. If people here continue to portray me as some kind of information-hoarding egomanical expert then I have no need to show or say anything here...I'm not doing it for myself, I'm doing it because I enjoy being a Vader helmet enthusiast.

And if anyone can tell the difference now between an authentic casting and a replica or a helmet later down the lineage, then let's have some real discussions about Vader helmets and I'll be there right with you....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Midnight Trooper wrote:

Thats not really what I meant. I'm saying that if Gino has made the choice to not answer questions about his helmet, stop asking them.

Everytime one of his helmets comes up in conversation it is put down in an attempt to goad Gino into sharing about it. He wont.

So call it a VP if you want or take his word for what its worth.



Well his helmet is definitely not a VP. And I can easily show why.

Stop asking them? Hello? Gino is the one questioning my casting, so why can't I question his? I wouldn't say anything about his helmet if he would just participate in discussions like everyone else instead of these crybaby threads.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:28 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
Mac, everything I've done from the RPF to here is to encourage people to do the research for themselves...I will show something...a comparison or something, and it might not always be perfect, and hope that collectors will say ok I'm going to look into that and make up my own mind....every time I've made a point I try my damnest to illustrate it...and I state my opinions as best I can and if I know something is the case I will state it with certainty.


SithLord,

While it may take us a few pages on a thread to change your mind on something (*grin*) the fact that you do indeed do this (as mentioned above) is why I'm personally glad you're the one receiving this eBay find for which you've invested so much. It's a win for the Vader community. In another's hands, it would be lost or lorded over us.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:14 pm
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Location: Edinburgh Scotland
CSMacLaren wrote:
voice in the crowd wrote:
I wrote in another thread how much I was enjoying the Vader community lately and especially The Prop Den with all the excellent helmets showing up recently and the great discussion threads.

I also noted how civil the forum was.

I clearly cursed things :lol

Cheers Chris



We Scots have the inversed equivalent of Irish Luck! :toothy



I lived in Dublin for four years and you are so right :lol


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