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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Karo,
I think that pic explains what Gino was trying to say albeit not clearly.
The dome does not sit higher it is just slightly rotated back giving the raised brow effect. I can do this on all my helets as well.

Personally I think they did this on purpose in ROTJ because it gives Vader a softer (vulnerable) look. Just a theory of course.

Doug


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:09 pm 
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That's it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:26 pm 
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GINO wrote:
wannab wrote:
Karo,
I think that pic explains what Gino was trying to say albeit not clearly.
The dome does not sit higher it is just slightly rotated back giving the raised brow effect. I can do this on all my helets as well.
Personally I think they did this on purpose in ROTJ because it gives Vader a softer (vulnerable) look. Just a theory of course.
Doug

That's it.

So... let me get this straight... this whole argument has been about tilt vs elevation?

Sadly not what you were saying in the beginning:
GINO wrote:
The fact that I was talking about is when you stated that the ESB dome setup is different than the ROTJ dome setup which is impossible because they are one in the same.


The setup is NOT similar - even supported by your own comments - so stating that they are, is faulty. Anyone can see that the domes are placed different in correspondence with the face between ESB & RotJ - the fact that the domes on both helmets may be on the exact same dome mount is irrelevant as the dome position is still different between the two movies - caused by the velcro position changing the dome position.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:40 pm 
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When I say setup, I'm referring to the ring mount and flange.

:banger


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:49 pm 
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Quote:
So... let me get this straight... this whole argument has been about tilt vs elevation?


That's how I interpreted the coments, maybe because (based on his coments) I have played with positioning (tilt) on my helmets to see if I could get different looks -- answer, yes.

Quote:
The setup is NOT similar - even supported by your own comments - so stating that they are, is faulty. Anyone can see that the domes are placed different in correspondence with the face between ESB & RotJ - the fact that the domes on both helmets may be on the exact same dome mount is irrelevant as the dome position is still different between the two movies - caused by the velcro position changing the dome position.


I'm not sure they were the same mounts (how the hell would I know :wink: ) but if they were the same, the positioning (tilt) could easily be different. I don't see how this counters what Gino was trying to say. It seems to me what he said (repeatedly) was that the space in the brow area is all that differs. As an example, on Ginos ANH dome setup, I think he has his tilted too far forward (pinching) the brow area, an easy fix would be to remount helmet tilted slightly back - voila.

Doug


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:56 pm 
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Exactly.

Except for the ANH thing. On my ANH helmet I use the tabs for attachment with no velcro just like the real helmet. The dome position in ANH is all over the map and was dependent on however they pressed the dome together to the face. Everytime I re-attach my ANH dome, it sits slightly different, just like the real dome did. Of course when the film crew applied it, they weren't trying very hard to get a consistent positioning like we would. I try to match a particular pic when attaching mine.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:26 pm 
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I think there is some confusion as to who was disagreeing with whom in the first place. My point from the start of this thread was the more visible frown area on ROTJ as compared with ESB. This was contested. I provided proof. Now we seem to be in agreement.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:58 pm 
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Mac,
Just wanted to thank you for starting the original thread it made a big difference in how my DP dlx turned out after altering the dome mount. :salut

As to differing opinions, Gino never disagreed (as far as I can remember)that the helmet position appeared to look different just that they were the same mounting setup because they were ESB helms but that the positioning was changed because of slight variations and some tweaking of ESB helms prior to production of ROTJ.

Doug


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:08 pm 
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Exactly!
Doug, how is it that you can understand what I'm saying and it's like I'm talking chinese to others?
Either way, I'm glad at least one person gets it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:58 pm 
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GINO wrote:
Exactly!
Doug, how is it that you can understand what I'm saying and it's like I'm talking chinese to others?
Either way, I'm glad at least one person gets it.


I think it comes down to your tone and the fact you can't divulge some things -- it's frustrating as I'm sure you can imagine. After being around for awhile now, I have secrets I have to keep as well so I can understand your POV.

Some are ready to jump like wild monkeys if they perceive either that your being a "know it all" or just being contrary for whatever reason. Again a lot of it is tone. It's also a fun game to pile on someone sometimes when you see an opening, heck even I'm tempted sometimes. I think If you were to approach comments differently as opposed to cannon-balling into the pool (as you seem to do at times), it'd be more civil all around. Hey, one can dream right? lol


Doug


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:59 pm 
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Oops, double post.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:19 pm 
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GINO wrote:
When I say setup, I'm referring to the ring mount and flange.
:banger

I have re-read both threads and nowhere do you make any mention of:

1: dome tilt.
2: differences between ESB & RotJ dome position - you distinctly said they were similar.
3: velcro causing difference in dome position regardless of dome mounts being similar in both movies.
4: acknowledging the higher brow gap being accurate to RotJ - in fact you did just the opposite in this very thread.

Your sole argument was: ESB = RotJ (100% identical). No higher dome position, no tilt, no gap, no difference. Read the thread yourself and see that you make no mention of these things you are mentioning now.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:47 am 
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NoHumorMan wrote:
GINO wrote:
When I say setup, I'm referring to the ring mount and flange.
:banger

I have re-read both threads and nowhere do you make any mention of:

1: dome tilt.
2: differences between ESB & RotJ dome position - you distinctly said they were similar.
3: velcro causing difference in dome position regardless of dome mounts being similar in both movies.
4: acknowledging the higher brow gap being accurate to RotJ - in fact you did just the opposite in this very thread.

Your sole argument was: ESB = RotJ (100% identical). No higher dome position, no tilt, no gap, no difference. Read the thread yourself and see that you make no mention of these things you are mentioning now.


That's the impression I had, too. Strange. We could have shortened this thread significantly if someone with high-end Vader knowledge would have been so kind explaining to us amateurs that it all depends on a small piece of velcro... :lol :lol :lol

Tom


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:38 am 
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Well I'm glad you guys cleared that up once and for all.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:47 pm 
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And just to clarify. This was part of Mac's original run-down:

CSMacLaren wrote:
Once you've achieved proper vertical tilt, the rest is basically how deep the mask recesses into the dome as well as how much the rim needs to conceal or expose the eyes.

The eyebrows/front rim of the dome was worn progressively higher as you move from ANH to ESB to ROTJ.


And since we are all now talking about the same thing, something which was mentioned in the first posts, then I can't help but think that most of what happened in these threads was pointless arguing for whatever reasons.

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