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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:49 pm 
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Let's try to keep this on a non personal attacking level, please.

From what I can read in these last posts, then it seems there's a lot of speaking past each other, focusing on details the other person didn't mention or imbuing a different meaning into what was said than what was intended, either incidental or deliberately.


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:14 pm 
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Jez' earlier analysis of the TIE pilot and the mohawk differences was my first indicator that just because something was made by Ainsworth, it doesn't mean it's entirely screen accurate. He has to reconstruct the look, almost from scratch, save for the molds he has. Given the molds he was working with and the skewed effect his pulls were having, I believed at the time that making the mold off of the interior of a screen used helmet and then vac-forming over that would produce a more accurate reproduction of the screen look than what Ainsworth was selling.

My personal view is that there were many fans who didn't mind if what Ainsworth made was inaccurate. They considered him the proverbial mother lode, so anything he made was connected to the holy grail of molds. I have to applaud fan efforts who don't have the benefit of Ainsworth's molds and yet produce work that is much more accurate.

This is not to diminish Ainsworth's quality and attention to detail where detail and quality can exist regardless of the level of accuracy.


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:54 pm 
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SithLord wrote:
zenwalker quoted the judge....I suppose his sources are questionable....

In that he is paraphrasing Ainsworth's recollections, yes they are.

As far as prices on fanmade helmets go, isn't Ainsworth charging approximately $1000 US for a helmet? A poorly recast helmet at that. Thomas, despite what you are saying, you are STILL defending Ainsworth. We all shot him down, we spat in his face, yada yada. The guy spat in your face, for cripes sake. He lied to you and you believed it, yet we spat in his face for doubting the visual evidence. Right.


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:56 am 
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Quote:
CSMacLaren wrote:
Jez' earlier analysis of the TIE pilot and the mohawk differences was my first indicator that just because something was made by Ainsworth, it doesn't mean it's entirely screen accurate. He has to reconstruct the look, almost from scratch, save for the molds he has. Given the molds he was working with and the skewed effect his pulls were having, I believed at the time that making the mold off of the interior of a screen used helmet and then vac-forming over that would produce a more accurate reproduction of the screen look than what Ainsworth was selling.

Every fan made helmet including AA's are inaccurate to some degree, even TE's. Check some other boards like the 1st Imperial Detachment and see how all the Helmet makers are now fighting amongst each other AGAIN over whose helmet is more accurate, backed up with all kinds of 'evidence'. This new row amongst TK makers all started from the new Laws helmet and the same old arguments over who has the better moulds etc. etc.

As Sithlord stated all the arguments of the SDS being inaccurate was mainly based off TE's helmets as a gold standard. But even that helmet has it's inaccuracies. As mentioned there are many variables between the screen used helmets themselves. TE's helmet was based off of one or two screen used helmets, so how could it be used as a standard to compare other helmets to?


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:26 am 
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zenwalker wrote:
Quote:
CSMacLaren wrote:
Jez' earlier analysis of the TIE pilot and the mohawk differences was my first indicator that just because something was made by Ainsworth, it doesn't mean it's entirely screen accurate. He has to reconstruct the look, almost from scratch, save for the molds he has. Given the molds he was working with and the skewed effect his pulls were having, I believed at the time that making the mold off of the interior of a screen used helmet and then vac-forming over that would produce a more accurate reproduction of the screen look than what Ainsworth was selling.

Every fan made helmet including AA's are inaccurate to some degree, even TE's. Check some other boards like the 1st Imperial Detachment and see how all the Helmet makers are now fighting amongst each other AGAIN over whose helmet is more accurate, backed up with all kinds of 'evidence'. This new row amongst TK makers all started from the new Laws helmet and the same old arguments over who has the better moulds etc. etc.

As Sithlord stated all the arguments of the SDS being inaccurate was mainly based off TE's helmets as a gold standard. But even that helmet has it's inaccuracies. As mentioned there are many variables between the screen used helmets themselves. TE's helmet was based off of one or two screen used helmets, so how could it be used as a standard to compare other helmets to?

I can only speak for me here, but my argument against Ainsworth's accuracy were Thomas' pictures. Not a one was remotely as accurate to the images posted. Now, I am among the majority (Assuming here) who have never done any vacuforming, but has a bare understanding of the concept. I am sure there are intricacies in pulling the plastic that would cause some of the deformities that Thomas posted images of on his screen shots. But aside from the face mask, everything else was way off.


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:55 am 
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zenwalker wrote:
Every fan made helmet including AA's are inaccurate to some degree, even TE's. Check some other boards like the 1st Imperial Detachment and see how all the Helmet makers are now fighting amongst each other AGAIN over whose helmet is more accurate, backed up with all kinds of 'evidence'. This new row amongst TK makers all started from the new Laws helmet and the same old arguments over who has the better moulds etc. etc.

As Sithlord stated all the arguments of the SDS being inaccurate was mainly based off TE's helmets as a gold standard. But even that helmet has it's inaccuracies. As mentioned there are many variables between the screen used helmets themselves. TE's helmet was based off of one or two screen used helmets, so how could it be used as a standard to compare other helmets to?



Speaking just for myself, I don't use a TE as a gold standard. I use screencaps.

Each SDS I have seen suffers from jaw droop.

Image

Crow here on the Den made modifications to his SDS and he did a bloody fantastic job with it (the thead is elsewhere here on the Den).

Now if Crow could do that, why couldn't Ainsworth address the jaw droop during assembly? Or better yet, why not address it on the mold itself?

You've probably seen picture of his vacforming buck - the one of two faces on a single buck but in mirrored orientation. Both faces had the jaw droop. Forget how they are assembled for a moment and consider only the parts. If AA's "original molds" faceplate is skewed while someone molded the interior of a real prop faceplate to where the mold was not skewed, I'd simply go with the latter. The extra $600-700 could be spent towards the cost of a suit.

Again, this is personal preference, nothing more. :cheers


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:28 am 
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I agree with a lot of your points above Mac. I think a lot of the problems with that SDS had to do with improper assembly, and that point has been addressed in the past and I know Jez has spoken about this before as well.
With regards to your comparison pic above I am not really sure what you mean by the helmet being 'skewed'. Please also keep in mind that the SDS Battlespec is not an accurate rendition of a TK bucket at all, as AA tweaked it in the computer and made it more symmetrical on purpose.
For me the faceplate of the SDS seems bang on, as well as the dome and cheek tubes. It's weak points are the back of the helmet (and swoop), the ears and the undercut of the helmet.
But perhaps we are deviating from the purpose of this thread-the trial...please carry on.


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:35 am 
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You guys may have already discussed this, but I didnt feel like going back that far. I guess AA can now produce his helmets, but cannot sell to America? I consider that a WIN for him. Nobody from America can afford his helmets anyway. This also means that he can still sell to the rest of the world. He is going to make bank legitimately.


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:46 am 
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TK-4510 wrote:
You guys may have already discussed this, but I didnt feel like going back that far. I guess AA can now produce his helmets, but cannot sell to America? I consider that a WIN for him.


It's not over yet, there are still additional hearings in the case... So jumping to conclusions is a little premature...

Quote:
Nobody from America can afford his helmets anyway.


Is this some kind of a joke or insult? Really what was the point of this, besides to insult?

Quote:
This also means that he can still sell to the rest of the world. He is going to make bank legitimately.


Like I said it isn't over there are still additional hearings and almost certainly appeals as the Judge's ruling just voided the copyright of just about any movie prop or costume over 15 years old... This is a serious blow to all studios and studio artist as they have just been told that their artwork isn't art, it's almost certainly going to be challenged... For example I have a feeling that the BBC isn't just going to stand by while bootleg Daleks and Cybermen flood the market supposedly legal bootlegs as they most certainly meet the same criteria as the trooper armor according to the Judge... Also I certainly won't jump to conclusions about the whole world just yet US copyrights (and other foreign local copyrights) are upheld in many countries outside the US and UK it's much more complicated then a black and white issue, and I doubt LFL is just going to let it go just yet...


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:16 am 
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exoray wrote:
...and I doubt LFL is just going to let it go just yet...


Honestly, if it were your creation would you let it go? I know I wouldn't.


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:37 pm 
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It was not meant as an insult. I live here in America...


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:29 pm 
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TK-4510 wrote:
It was not meant as an insult. I live here in America...

Well, people here can afford them, as I assure you, he still has buyers of his wares from the States. Were I one of the uber trooper fans, I would buy a GINO, just based on the looks. That is if I had $1k to spare. (I'd rather spend that money on a Vader bucket with some history behind it.)


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:55 pm 
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Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
TK-4510 wrote:
It was not meant as an insult. I live here in America...

Well, people here can afford them, as I assure you, he still has buyers of his wares from the States. Were I one of the uber trooper fans, I would buy a GINO, just based on the looks. That is if I had $1k to spare. (I'd rather spend that money on a Vader bucket with some history behind it.)


I would buy a GINO too if there were any readily available, as it is a pretty rare/ difficult helmet to acquire because so few were made.


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:02 pm 
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TK-4510 wrote:
You guys may have already discussed this, but I didnt feel like going back that far. I guess AA can now produce his helmets, but cannot sell to America? I consider that a WIN for him. Nobody from America can afford his helmets anyway. This also means that he can still sell to the rest of the world. He is going to make bank legitimately.



An excellent observation.

I also read some media articles how LFL was "struck down" or how "both sides" claimed they won, etc. My observation of lawsuits in general is that, whenever possible, both sides will try to claim victory. It kind of reminds me Saddam at one point claimed victory - he was either delusional or he did that just to piss Bush off after spending millions of dollars on the war in Iraq.

With respect to the LFL vs. AA lawsuit, the concept of victory here depends on its definition, and how long it will last. Bear in mind that sometimes a legal battle spans multiple lawsuits. Each lawsuit will cover multiple points. It's expected that the Claimant will win some points and lose others. Ultimately, what do you walk away with after the Judgment? Is the ball closer towards the goal?

For LFL

The major win is the recognition by the British courts of AA's copyright infringement and recognizing LFL as the owner of the SW franchise. Even though the Judge didn't enforce the law against Ainsworth for his specified reasons, it was not that he was unwilling but it was the extent of applicable law. However - and this is a BIG plus to LFL - the Judge basically gave them a HUGE clue as to quite possibly a better venue for pursuing enforcement and damages: industrial law. (This might create a precedence for movie props to be protected under industrial law, similar to how engine parts, etc. are protected.)

What one must bear in mind is that even though Ainsworth was a no-show for the U.S. trial, Judge Mann accepted the U.S. ruling and therefore Mann's Judgement has established a precedent in the U.K. courts. LFL has now a stronger legal footing and will not have to re-argue the copyright infringement angle when they pursue Ainsworth via industrial law.

So in Round 2 of LFL vs AA, what did LFL walk away with? Recognition of IP, which has been the primary force of their fight. A HUGE win, in my observation. Not quite "THE" win they wanted, but it's a huge step in the right direction.

For Ainsworth

The fact that the Judge did not enforce the judgment might be interpreted as a victory - especially if you add on top of that the possibility of his selling his wares to any country outside of the U.S. LFL does not have to go to each and every single country to block Ainsworth; just the UK.

Ainsworth only has a temporary reprieve. He is not completely out of the woods in the grand scheme of things. That the law could not be enforced against him, etc. were technicalities and not because of Ainsworth's evidence and amazing abilities at furnishing information. J(udge Mann exposed the absolute weakness and unreliability of Ainsworth's testimony. The Judgment of the lawsuit serves as a permanent public record of Ainsworth's unremarkable performance in court. The Judge's thoughts towards Ainsworth are extremely clear... and he was more than polite considering the facts.) In other words, Ainsworth got lucky. In my opinion, it takes considerable arrogance to rebrand that luck into a victory.

So for Round 2, what did Ainsworth walk away with? Ainsworth is basically on borrowed time. Ainsworth's reputation has reached new depths, and the inaccuracies and untruths of his authorship claims have been revealed. There is no basis for his countersuit. From here on, Ainsworth will have a very difficult time counter suing LFL for Round 3 because even the credibility of the countersuit has been shot down. Depending on the Judge, the results of this Round 2 lawsuit and countersuit may have serious effects on how Round 3 plays out. At least here in the States, in certain courts, if you fail in a countersuit, you can lose credibility.

So...

The proverbial scrummage has ended, and the ball is much closer towards Ainsworth's goal. The fact that the ball hasn't quite touched-down into Ainsworth's goal posts is for him a minor and momentary reprieve. If you don't think there is going to be Round 3, sure, you can interpret it as a victory. At this point, however, Ainsworth has exhausted his "evidence" and his testimony leaves much to be desired. His countersuit was hot air, and so if the Round 3 scrummage doesn't level him, he will find he's lost a lot of footing.

My guess is that he will continue to sell stuff to desperately raise money to defend himself for Round 3. You'll always have misinformed fans who will continue to believe that he is the holy grail of all things stormtrooper and won't hestitate to continue to drop top dollar for his illegitimate merchandise.

However, if both parties respond to the Judge's invitation to talk, it is only in the best interest of all that a settlement is reached, as these lawsuits also cost taxpayers money.


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 Post subject: Re: The AA Trial - renamed from armor sculpt topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:17 pm 
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Qui-Gonzalez wrote:
TK-4510 wrote:
It was not meant as an insult. I live here in America...

Well, people here can afford them, as I assure you, he still has buyers of his wares from the States. Were I one of the uber trooper fans, I would buy a GINO, just based on the looks. That is if I had $1k to spare. (I'd rather spend that money on a Vader bucket with some history behind it.)


I agree with Gonz on this one. I am no fan of GINO as a person. That opinion aside, I think the look of his $1k helmets are far superior to an Ainsworth.

I can't justify $1k for a GINO, however. If his only claim to fame of accuracy is it being bumpy capped, there are TE/TE2 helmets that are bumpy capped. TE's details apparently are sharper now than they were a few years ago. Laws also redid TE's molds and sharpened things up. So between the cost of a TE and a GINO, I can't justify the added expense and would rather invest the difference in a suit.

However, price aside, GINO and TE (as well as other fanmades) have established a look that is easily on par or superior to an Ainsworth, IMHO.


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