Bingo,

If TE is guilty of lying about not returning to the business, he is only lying about himself.

If AA is guilty of lying and overstating the accuracy of his products (an accuracy implied bty his "cast from original molds" marketing) then he is lying to fans about his products.

If one lies about himself and I acquire his products (so long as he's not fabricating his involvement on the production of Episode IV), I'm not financially out by any means if what I am collecting is based on an original prop.

For the record, I am not a "TE Supporter". I happen to see good things about both helmets, but when questions like "Where can I get an accurate XYZ helmet" arises, the pro-AA camp gives the unqualified de facto answer that essentially amounts to AA/SDS being the holy grail of accuracy. And I'm not sure I agree with that.

As far as I am concerned, even though AA has the original molds, the MEPD people are right about the various discrepancies that challenge the implication that AA/SDS products are fully accurate, and they've documented their various observations very well -- and I have yet to see those observations fully debunked.

Both TE and AA/SDS' work are beautiful. TE is $450. AA/SDS is $900, last I checked. So my next criteria other than aesthetic beauty is accuracy. So what makes AA/SDS the de facto standard of accuracy whereupon AA's products are thus superior to everyone else's -- especially if the molds have been damaged with use due to volume production, and AA has to fabricate new parts and compensate for this fact?

Such a claim does not hold up to logic.

Let's consider for a moment that a physical screen-used prop helmet is a good "positive" to serve as a mold. If you have an integrous casting on one side, and you have original molds on the other -- which, as you had said on MEPD.Net, suffered damage and were becoming progressively worse with volume production -- then despite the molds surviving until this day, I'd rather go with the casting because that casting would be an accurate representation of the state the mold was in at the time it was cast.

That is not to say AA cannot take a mold in a degraded state, and from memory restore it what he believes to be in its former glory, but that puts him only on at least equal footing with TE and GINO's work, not superior. Unless one feels that he is the creator of the Stormtrooper, but let us please let the courts decide that, as we may never know the truth.

At this rate, if I want beauty *and* accuracy, I'd be okay investing a reasonable sum in a replica that is based on a "positive" prop rather than investing twice as much money on a prop with only an implication of original accuracy because it was "cast from original molds" but where AA had to compensate to make the whole helmet complete.

Damn it didn't take long for this to turn into an AA thread did it.

Mac i didnt see anyone including Jez say AA's helmets were any more accurate than TE's infact nobody even mentioned accuracy.
What was mentioned was TE's marketing practices now it's plain to most people that AA has been economical with the truth.
TE has announced several times in the past that he is leaving the hobby and wont be producing any more helmets i dont think that can be disputed the question is though does he or has he ever really intended to stop or is this a marketing ploy ?
As for price well thats for them to decide what value they place on their work.

Deffie,

TE flipflopping on making or not making helmets is not a marketing issue, unless he were for some reason doing this to create a sense of rarety in order to boost the aftermarket value of these helmets. But why? They're so hard to come by nowadays and those who go trooping rarely give up their TEs anyway. Unavailability makes people go to the next best alternatives. I see them holding their value, but not necessarily going up.

Since Jez brought up the "'this is the VERY last time' routene" and "The fact is he'll NEVER leave the hobby as he craves the adoration he gets from it (hence the trooper "expert" moniker) . " -- it sounds like he has a bone to pick. So what's the bone? That he flip flops?

We all flipflop. I tell myself I will never eat that over-greasy Kentucky Fried Chicken ever again, and 3 months later I'm back at the same place stuffing my face!

So how exactly does TE's flipflopping constitute a reason for me to not consider a TE purchase? For one, he has not lied about the origin or the integrity of his product. Second, whether he quits or rejoins the business does not strike me as a moral issue (whereas lying about one's product to "one-up" the competition would be.) Third, again, whether he quits or rejoins is his own personal choice. Forth, he has not fabricated some story on "I worked on the original film" like I hear one Vader provider did.

Does his doing this run of 30 mean he's rejoining permanently? Who knows. Does it matter? The bottom line is: I fail to see any foul play here. I fail to see marketing deception here. Perhaps some of you old-timers know the secret histories of all these guys involved in the industry. And if you choose to boycott someone based on what you know, that is your right. (Personally , I am boycotting one particular Vader provider because of the way he speaks down to people. He makes a good helmet, but for moral reasons I will not give him my money after seeing first hand the way he treats people.)

As for me (a newcomer) all I saw was: ANH stunt helmet. $450. Choice of colors.... comes with this.... assembled, etc. That's it. I don't see, "from the original molds" and other blah-blah-blah marketing. So from my perspective, the "marketing" -- if any -- has been straight-up so far.

So consider this:

TE 30th Anniv.: $450. Unpainted. Accurate. Looks great.
AA/SDS. $900. Painted. Inaccurate. Looks great.

Those are the details placed before me.

Well im not an old timer or veteran and i dont take sides i just try to put my view accross as i see it from the information i have.
i don't have personal grudges against either TE or AA .
Now as for the flip flopping i think it does have a bearing on marketing and not just secondry value or the item holding or increasing in value.
If an item is marketed as a limited number and not available ever again then that more or less insures immediate sales.
Secondly when you announce you are leaving the game and are looking to offload your moulds well that certainly wont hurt the possibilty of a very lucrative sale will it compared to say offering copies of your moulds but still producing yourself.
In truth by producing more helmets this will only reduce in value the helmets that people have previously purchsed,an item that has only 300 pieces in existance is of course more valuable than one that has 600 in existance.
Is saying these are the very last helmets really any different to AA's claims both are plainly untrue.
Again i dont recall anyone saying that yourself or anybody else should not consider purchasing a TE helmet or indeed boycotting him.
It's interesting you bring up the one upmanship on the competition phrase i believe TE was involved somewhat with LFL's case against AA perhaps someone else can elaborate on that as im not 100% sure on that it's just something i heard.

Now as far as this helmet goes if you like it i say go for it its a great helmet and the price isn't unreasonable.
For my opinion though i would say hunt out a styrene TE or a TE2 just because of the reasons i stated before if the HDPE was the right colour it would be worth having but as it isn't it has no advantage over a styrene one.
I believe the earpieces are also the wrong material too.

Good post, Def!

I'm after a certain aesthetic, and that the helmet is based on an original screen-used prop. And I don't want to pay an AA/SDS price. The TE meets those criteria.

As far as rarety and value are concerned, I have no aspirations that this will some day gain in value. So on one hand I feel sorry for those who might feel cheated by the flipflop, but at the same time you have to admit than even JB and SPFX Vader helmet prices on eBay have been falling significantly. I see people trying to unload their Rubies LE Vaders and people just aren't buying them. In light of these things, I think the customers have to be a little wiser on "only 22 of these will be made; these are very rare; after that I won't make more" because it's not like those 22 would gain value...

... unless you count 40-50 years where they would then qualify as an antique and might appear on the Antique Roadshow where they may not appraise for much value because many of these have no verifiable lineage and no official Lucasfilm relationship, so the auction houses will always esteem true props more.

If someone is falsifying their marketing, shame on them. If we believe falsified marketing a little too easily, shame on us.

Thanks Mac

I dont blame you for not wanting to pay AA's prices i wouldn't pay that myself.
As for TE's helmet yep it's very nice i just dont see the advantage of this run over previous ones.

The rarity/value thing well i dont think that previous sales will be effected to a massive degree my point was more geared toward by marketing as limited and final runs ensures almost immediate sales for TE but hey whoever heard of an honest salesman eh ?
Yes prices seemed to have dropped a fair bit across the board really someone was selling brand new factory sealed MR LE Luke lightsabers the other week for $200 great for me im a buyer and its a buyers market

Thanks for the pic comparison Jez, its good to clarify that sits a green shade and not the grey or tan. But I wonder what the TE green looks like.


Just to get back to the molds again(sorry if everyone knows the answer to this, i'm still fairly a newbie)

Are the source helmet for these TE helmets and helmets that gino is currently producing the same? Or did Gino start to use a different helmet for the base of his current trooper helmets.

Cheers

JR

I recently spoke to GINO and he says he's no longer offering helmets. But when he did, his most recent run was based on two actual screen-used helmets.

See: http://www.looksirdroids.com/davin_replica2.html

But that's off topic to this this thread. I'd encourage anyone interested to start a new thread, so we can get GINO's input.

Mac,

My issue with TE is not to do with his "flip flopping", which I would find funny if it wasnt that he was ripping off fans. However I do have an issue that many of his supporters have vilified AA for "Lies lies lies" and yet TE is guilt of a great many himself - so its the hypocricy. I'm certainly not making AA to be any kind of hero here, just pointing out those who critise AA that their saviour TE is not so perfect himself.

And yes he is being used as a witness for Lucasfilm against AA, which is pretty nasty since TE tried to go into business with AA until AA decided to decline his offer. Interesting that as part of the "deal" to give evidence, TE got a trip round the Lucasfilm archives. Nice.

This is the guy responsible for more helmets and armour out there than anyone else, helping LFL prosecute the guy who made the things in the first place.

So this is not about accuracy, people can buy whatever helmet they like. Its about the way someone has conducted himself in this hobby over a great many years. But dont just take my word for it

Ask Brian R who bought the first original helmet off TE and the revelations he found aftter he'd paid the cash

Ask "Stormtrooper/Pugman" about the way TE tried to rip off his original RotJ helmet and suit.

Ask Gino who bought TE's original moulds from him (and has proof of the deal) only to have TE and his crew launch constant attacks at him when Gino "dared" to produce a better looking helmet.

..and the fact he's been banned from just about every prop forum should give an indication of the type of guy he is, the RPF, RPB, Rebelscum, MEPD.

I could go on.....

Cheers

Jez

Just found this on MEPD. It was written by Braks Buddy, someone who I think its fair to say who has a well-respected and unbiased position in this hobby....

Matt loves to play the "this is the last run... AND ... there will only be a few made" so he can charge an extravegent amount for those that he sells when the truth is he will turn out as many as he can sell.

I find it interesting that the trooper arena's greatest contributor is also its greatest and most corrupt nemisis. Matt and his ilk are a black cloud over this entire area of the prop community. What is the most sad is all the people who still look at Matt as a god and believe he can do no wrong, people who just want the props and do not care what hook or crook it requires to get them... people who are willing to stroke Matt's ego just for the crumbs from his table.

I am not sure who is more pathetic, Matt or his loyal entourage. You would think by now the masses would be able to see for themselves what kind of person Matt is. He has lied about Gino and lied to Gino. He has lied about Jez. He has stolen from Dave and Gino in regard to the armor. He has stolen from GF in regard to the armor. He has stolen from Tony G in regard to the armor. He has lied about Andrew Ainsworth.

He has presented his opinions and assumptions as unequivicable fact to the masses. IN my OPINION, those who still follow Matt are simply a kool-aid drinkers...

Couldnt have said it better myself

Cheers

Jez

I see his personal problems are starting to creep in on the FISD. They may all be true, but he has the most personal problems of anyone I've ever seen.

Thanks for clearing the AA thing up Jez now if thats not oneupping the competition i dont know what is.
Crazy that LFL use someone that has stolen what they claim as theirs to aid their case against someone else they claim has stolen their property
Interestingly enough whoever wins that case TE is guilty of theft from that party.

All the TE personal crap aside, I can't see how one could say nothing is to be gained if the material of his new helmets isnt an accurate color. My TE2 styrene, which I don't troop in, already suffers from some hairline cracks here and there. This new material I understand to be more durable and flexible than styrene. And as for the ears being the wrong material, yes the real ears were ABS. But I don't really care that styrene is used there on the new TEs; it's still white plastic.

I have not seen a better helmet come along in terms of accuracy yet. If you find another helmet which is not cheap styrene and comes complete with accurate interior details for under $450, let me know.

And Brak's and Jez, I am decidedly not a Matt arse-kisser.

I would argue that my helmet is FAR more accurate than any helmet TE has ever produced.

Yes, you could argue that Gino. I haven't seen any evidence that your helmets are FAR more accurate but there is no doubt that you helmets are very, very nice, I just haven't a prayer of owning one and you were no longer producing them last I heard.

To my knowledge you have never produced HDPE type material stunt helmets so I wouldn't know if you have made some sort of perfect replica. And even though you have done a terrific job at replicating the interior details on your V2 helmet I have seen in the pictures, I am willing to bet that you wouldn't offer a fully furnished helmet for the same sort of price range that Matt currently is.
If you said you had a fully furnished accurate colored HDPE stunt helmet for around $500, then I would be very intrested. If you even said you had one of your V2 styrene stunts for around there, then I would be a bit intrested...

The only thing I'm trying to say is that alot of people are knocking this new helmet of Matt's unduly. People should acknowledge that it has potential when more are made, to be the most accurate helmet available
For me at least, It's not a matter of who has made the most accurate helmet EVER.
It's a matter of who makes the closest to accurate helmet for those who wish to own one.

Your Hero helmets are superb and they have no competition in my mind.